Witnessed something great today

Derstuka:

I thought about what the question you posed to me and why I don't single out experianced riders who act like retards.

Well, this may sound odd, but I don't know any or at least I am unaware that they act in an unsafe manner. One experianced rider I know only rides on the track becasue he'll ride like a maniac on the road. He knows this and chooses to stay off public roads.

I know some people who are reformed squids and dumbasses, but they left that lifestyle long ago and rail harder against them than I do.

I guess if/when the day comes I met such a rider, and they act like a tool on public roads. I imagine I'll be very harsh torwards them because they should no better.

But all of this leads me to the next question:

What is an experianced motorcyclist?

If I had to define it, I would say its a rider who has good bike control at low speed and highway speeds and posesses the self-control to minimize their risk based upon their skill level.

(see drewls definition below! I likey!)

BZ

 

BZ, I think that would better fit a Proficient Rider. Experience does not always breed change-as described by Joey above. If it did people like me would only work on young people. I have seen more adults getting hurt doing stupid things even though they 'know better.' Often their first words are, "well, that was stupid."
A proficient rider can do everything an experienced rider does, but acts with insight and intelligence rather than skill alone.

Not bashing, just expounding.

 

That remark resembles me.

 

What made you change? Please share some insights.

BZ

 

My daughters boyfriend called me yeaterday to inform me that he had crashed his GSXR 600 in a parking lot at 20mph when some dud in a p/u truck jumped out of a space directly in front of him. He bough the bike two months ago and was a first time rider. When he bought it he called me up all excited (his Dad has passed away) and I asked him about gear and strongly , strongly recommended it. I told him DO NOT be a squid. the guys that live across the street from him work at a Ducati dealer , and they all wear gear, so he knew what squid meant. When he t-boned the truck he was wearing hemet ,gloves, jacket, and riding pants. His bike is totaled, and his little finger on his left hand may need surgery, but he's ok. It hasn't even scared him away from riding. He's gonna get another bike.

 

Nice to hear of a young guy starting off on the right foot and being rewarded for it. Positive reinforcement.

 

I was mulling over what you wrote(yes, on the toliet:bs::wink and your insights are good young Jedi!

Someone can be blessed with skill, but if you lack the judgement of when to apply the skill, then the skill is worthless.

I was thinking of some fellow MSF Coaches who are fairly skilled riders, not the best, but what they do posess is a hugh amount of judgment.

They can read the road and traffic patterns as if psychic and use their judgement to remove themselves from potential harm.

And trust me no need to worry about offending me, you didn't.

I'm just asking questions and searching for answers.

BZ

 

That story isn't what made me change. I have totaled two bikes in my life, on riding gear, one not. I wear gear now because its so much better than the old days, and I can afford better gear. I just got smarter as I aged

 

Here's an even more embarassing admission. I totaled one bike by lowsiding it into a tide creek in Morro Bay after a night of heavy partying. Add that to the list of stupid shit I no longer do. That one was high speed and with gear on and I walked away.

 

I would much rather foresee a hazard and avoid it than be able juke and jive my way out of one that I am already in. This applies to all aspects of my life. If I can give my patient medicine to prevent nausea, I can avoid having to clean my boots and my flight suit and the helicopter...
The crazy situations make for good stories, but I enjoy the dozens and dozens of uneventful trips in between.

 

Wearin gear actually adds to my enjoyment of the ride, I like the ritual of suiting up, its performing a small tribute to the bike gods and focuses me on what is about to occur. I am then ready to enter the state of riding. Whew...how new agey was that ?

 

Someone here on this site has said, and I don't remember who....(All right give me a break I am getting older).

Dress for the crash you hope you don't have. Or something like that. This advise is profound. I have used it more often than I can remember. And I will continue to do so. Good advise will always stick in your mind. Hopefully it will also stick in your practices as well.

Thank you to who ever coined that one.

 

Hey BZ, reading your thread led me to consider the relevance of ' Risk Management' (RM) to motorcycling in general. Having undertaken a lot of RM training in relation to adventurous out doors activity-camping, tramping etc..
i guess i see the same relevance for motorcyclists apply.

for example RM is about identifying risks (before they happen) plotting a solution to minimise it as a risk factor, and providing an 'actions on' proceedure in the event it does.

for a biker, wearing protective gear is a solution to identifying risk, as is proper machine maintenace, checking weather for the route, riding to road conditions, buddy riding , leaving arrival/departure details with a third party (someone knows if your missing) etc..

the latter part - 'what to do in the event of...' simply exsists to provide immediate answers, in potentially high stress situ's, that can reduce time delays when confronted with an incident /accident (and it may not neccesarily be to you involved ).

all in all , if RM was a part of motorcycle general education, maybe our newbs would be better, safer riders or at least have a fighting chance?

RT

 

Richard:

As an MSF Coach we talk about risk management, but I've always felt we don't do enough to drive risk managment home.

Its all classroom and theory and the riding exercises are so elementary many students do not make the connection to their riding and the risk of riding. I guess the low risk of being in a parking lot relaxes them too much.

Many of us coaches feel their should be a follow up weekend were we follow students out on the open road. Might make the correlation between riding skills and risk managment more clear to some of the students.

Thanks for your thoughts.

BZ

 

It's always nice to see a new rider with a brain between their ears. All to often, they listen to waht their pinhead friends say & wear jeans & a t shirt.

I too agree that the MSF should have some kind of on road training. I know why they don't. It would be a freaking huge liability. Imagine the lawsuits that could result from taking a new rider into traffic & turning them into the hood ornament for a Kenworth.

Fortunately, in the military, we have the option to FORCE people to wear gear. Is this a good way to do things? Not necessarily. To me, I support the forcing policy just since it makes things easier.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: :usa2:

 

thanks BZ, interesting to hear that MSF incorporate RM theory into their rider training programme. a good move.
it all comes back to relevance and as you have identified, there is a need to drive the message home in a realistic manner.

what we do for bushcraft training is to have the group do a full RM assesment for a day trip. Then, go out on the trip and have them 'encounter' a fairly serious off road vehicle accident in the middle of a forest.
veh RM is brought into the RM plan for transit in & out so they have 'actions on' for this anyway.(and there not expecting a vehicle accident in the forest)
then we can accurately assess who got it, who didnt and who's panicking.
the accident scene is very realistic with smashed cars, smoke and lots of bodies with realistic simulated injuries and fake blood.
its very interestying to see the differant types of stress responses we get
and in this instance the sheer realism really helps to bring home the message.

obviously this is all resource driven, and here in NZ we have a Mountain safety council' which supports our activities. in the long run education saves potentially millions of dollars in SAR manpower and eqpt resources, so
a good investment from there point of view. plus the instructors provide an excellent cadre of knowledge to draw on.
i applaud your participation (and other forum members) in the MSF programme
as instructors.

well done!

RT

 

Yeah KC, I thought liability might be an issue too which actually makes me angry becasue instead of actually teaching people some skill and real wolrd risk management, lets instead provide them with some elementary skills and talk about risk management.

Nice formula to set people up for failure. Hey, its the American way.

:soapbox:

OK, felt good to get that off my chest!

BZ

 

Thanks Richard, but the issue is we only 'talk' about RM.

Unless a student makes a mistake on the range during exercises we do not always get the chance to make the connection between RM, skill and riding.

It seems the majority of people learn best by being shown (visually) what you are trying to communicate. With RM it can be hard to do.

Also, since its a 'beginner' class we have alot of retards that need babysat. And that can take away from the students their to learn. RM and retards don't mix. They enjoy risk with NO managment.

BZ