VFR chopper??? Asking for some photoshop gurus to help give some visual ideas :)

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by steven113, Nov 3, 2010.

  1. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    I have been sitting on a spare low milage motor for almost 2 years now and have decided to build another bike instead of selling it after getting a steal off ebay on a frame($1). My first thoughts was to build a performance based streetfighter out of it but seeing as I already have a modified 5th gen I think I want to take the project in a whole new direction.

    I am seriosly thinking of cutting and raking out the new frame into a chopper so that it will have a similar stance as hondas new fury. I plan to document the entire build and need your help to give me some ideas, anyone that is handy with photoshop please take a shot at it :)

    Thanks in advance!
     
  2. drewl

    drewl Insider

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    Get a hold of Donald Branscom. He just built on this summer. There is a thread about it, but I could not find it.
     
  3. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    I have followed donalds quite impressive build on here, My project will be based on a 5th gen motor and frame. I plan on modifying the existing frame rather than making my own from scratch as donald did :)
     
  4. KC-10 FE

    KC-10 FE New Member

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    Didn't Honda do that already & call it the Magna?

    KC-10 FE out...
    :plane: :usa2:
     
  5. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    If the 5th generation (don't know what the model # is), has an aluminum frame you will not be able to do it.
    If you weld the aluminum meaning you have a Miller or Lincoln syncrowave 250 Tig machine (AC and high frequency) and a lot of skill the weld is only 64% strength of the parent material.

    That is why those cheap aluminum frames are so massively built compared to a steel tubular frame.
    Honda just saved money on the shipping costs on those bikes.


    If the 5th generation has a steel frame, then you could modify the frame because the TIG welded steel frame would be 85% or better strength of the parent material welded.

    If you are building a "street fighter" or "street tracker" then you would want 34º=36º rake and 4.5 inches of trail.
    The Harley Davidson V rod is 36 or 38 degrees rake. The Suzuki Intruder was 36º rake.

    I would just get a steel frame and put your engine in it. Then all you have to do is change the engine mounts .
    Would have to see the 5th generation bike (side view) without the fairing.
    Matter of fact if the engine would fit into the Suzuki 1400 frame that frame is 36º rake and weighs only 40 lbs!!!! Double loop cradle frame too.
    That Suzuki frame is a little short for a 5'9" inch tall person. If you are shorter that would be good if the engine would fit.

    Have to see a side view with some measurements.
    OR you could use a Honda 750 frame. But the rake is only about 32º.
     
  6. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Good call. V max too.
     
  7. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Did you get the TITLE with that frame?
     
  8. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    The frame has a rebuilt title. I would not be doing the welding myself if I decide to use the frame but after reading your post I dont think I want to risk a weaker steering stem especialy because the extra rake could put more stress on it(Ill have to do some more research on techniques to discuss with the welder if I do choose to go that route). I believe the new fury has a rake of 38 however a few degrees of that is achieved with an offset triple tree. The 5th gen uses the motor as a stressed member and the swingarm is attached to it instead of being atached to the upper frame so unless I want to ditch the sssa another frame is not an option.
     
  9. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    Here is a pic of my other 5th gen with some farings removed: img_0018.jpg
     
  10. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Thanks for posting that photo of the side view with no fairing.
    I appreciate the trouble you went to.
    That is a 90 V twin. There have been choppers made using those engines
    but you would have to build your own frame.

    BTW does that bike have 2 radiators or one?

    Choppers usually do have larger diameter steel frames to take into account e extra stresses.
    Choppers with rear suspension may have 1.25 inch diameter frames but most Rigid choppers have 1-3/8 diameter frames and sometimes even 1.5 inch frames.

    The frame may also be larger to take into account that a large hole is put in the frame near the steering head, so that all the wiring goes through the frame so it does not show. That can weaken the frame too.

    Those aluminum frames are throw away frames if they get damaged.
    I am not saying they cannot be repaired but it is more difficult and requires someone who really know what they are doing.

    When you buy a Ducati (998 etc.) that costs $20,000 or more, the frame is tubular steel NOT aluminum.
    Get it? Like I said before HONDA just saved money on the shipping and labor of fabrication.
    Also by making those aluminum frames that if damaged have to be discarded the insurance companies charge you more But those companies can sell more bikes and parts.

    The junk yards are full of the aluminum framed bikes.
    But keep buying them because the chopper builders and street fighter people need those engines and systems.
    They just don't need the aluminum frame.

    One more thing.....The aluminum frame is hard anodized after welding to give the weldment some more strength, and that hard anodized surface must be ground or sanded off BEFORE any welding repair. Then the part is thinner and weaker. See what I mean about difficult to repair? A lot of considerations.
     
  11. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Forgot to address the issue about the offset triple tree(like the Honda Fury chopper.)
    The reason for a offset triple tree on telescopic style forks is to get the amount of trail to be correct.
    A springer front fork do not use offset triple trees and the off set is usually zero. Trail is determined by length of rockers.
     
  12. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Can you provide a source for this claim?
     
  13. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    I am a certified welder and a certified welding inspector through the American Welding Society.
    I used to weld chromoly aircraft tubular engine mounts and i have studied metalurgical reports for 15 years through the AWS Welding Journal magazines. I welded stainless tubing for marine applications for 11 years and studied all the issues with different grades of stainless also.
    I have also welded aluminum weldments and bronze.
    I have had aluminum weldments anodized for marine use.
    Al of this work must be done in cooperation with other engineering disiplines to know all the facts and after many years and projects, I feel I give some advice.
    Of coarse it is better to have exact factual information for each project.
    If i wanted to repair Honda sport bike frames on a regular basis I would of coarse write a letter to Honda and ask about correct filler materials for the alloy in question, and not just use the 4043 general filler.
     
  14. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    the loss of integrity quoted seemed lower than I expected. No doubt welding of alum is no picnic. annealing, heat treating, preheating, surface preparation, and correct filler as stated....

    The AWS show last week in Atlanta had a fair turnout.
     
  15. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    The 5th gen bikes are equipt with 2 radiators(one on each side) The original plan if I was to make a chopper out of it was to use a larger single radiator similar to how yours is set up. The reason they are side mounted is to reduce the wheelbase however with a different fork angle room could be made for the front mounted radiator.
     
  16. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Its raining...I am working on your photoshop sketch gen 5- vf800 chopper.
    Meanwhile here is a pic of a forum member in 2008 of a steetfighter concept.
    I will be working on a chopper version.
    [​IMG]
     
  17. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Thumbnail sketches of gen 5 chopper with and without rear suspension.
    Double loop cradle frame.

    I did not spend too much time on these scketches -just quickies.
    BTW Illustrator sure messed up the gradient function on their new version.
    [​IMG]
     
  18. steven113

    steven113 New Member

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    Thank you donald! If i decide to go through with using a steel frame it will cradle the motor the same as the oem frame so I can still use the sssa, so it would be more like a half frame(still not out of the question)
     
  19. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    You know the place in the casting where they put the sssa can be used as an engine mount.
    Is it just that you want to keep the sssa???
    If so that is separate.
    I will make a drawing of a sssa with tube steel front frame.

    When I look for images of your bike on the internet I cannot find a photo
    of the swing arm side of the bike.
    Makes me think people do not like that side of the bike? Just wondering.
     
  20. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Agreed. Use the SSSA but build your own "receiver" for it in steel using the alum frame as a model. Round tubing, press in bearing races, problem solved.
     
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