V-tech- Over all positive or negative?

May I offer you a health tip? If I may: Don't hold your breath waiting. It is nice of you to throw that out there, but I heard the same thing for the last 2 years, then woke up and realized I was late to work. I don't think that Honda would have completely rebuilt the CBR1000rr if that was what the plan was - Honda in general has a well documented history of well planned model development instead of being a business that makes a completely new model every 2 years. They are definately in the business of making money, not the other way around. Win on Sunday, sell on Monday. They had to change to CBR1000 due to this fact only. Suzuki was handing them their hat in the litre classes. For all the lost soul V4 repli racer guys around here, I hope I'm terribly wrong.

 

Somebody forgot to tell Suzuki that, take a look at the B-King. Talk about stepping out there. But if you see a B-King in person, it is a pretty sharp looking bike, they really got the colors right.

 

I am interested to see how long Suzuki keeps the B-King in distibution to the US. Definately a very specific niche machine.

 

Everyone talks about innovation, but let's face it - innovative bikes typically do not sell well. Ducati got crucified for the 999/749, which was a vastly superior bike to the 996/748 in every way. It looked weird to the Ducati afficiandos, so it was dumped. The new 1098/848 looks more like a Ducati (with a large dose of Yamaha), and sales are good. The new 696 Monster is a much better bike on paper than the 695 - or even the 800 - but the Ducati faithful pan the styling. Ducati riders bash the Multistrada, but if you ride one you'll understand that it is a wonderful bike. Look at this site. The earlier generation VFR owners hate the 6th Gen in part because it doesn't have gear-driven cams! That's a hidebound criticism, as if the gear whine made for a better bike. Go figure. The recent Motorcyclist mag said it well - U.S. motorcylists like their bikes traditional. "Retro" appeals to decrepit Baby Boomers, I reckon . . . .

 

No flaming, but what exactly is wimpy about those CBR1000RRs and CBR600RRs? Is Honda playing it safe with those?

 

Completely agree.

 

Nothing is even remotely wimpy about them. Nothing could be further from the truth. I rode my 07 600RR last weekend, and yeeesh, it is fast! It's just ridiculous and even more ridiculously fast for a stock 600. I don't call it the Millenium Falcon for nothin'! :biggrin: But it is very clearly geared for the race track, it's right on the limit of not being useable as a street bike; it reminds me of a Ducati 916 in this respect (see, NorCalBoy was right after all). I wouldn't have thought of buying one if I didn't have a do-everything-well bike like the VFR.

I think the execs at American Honda are playing it safe by only having these bikes in their lineup, and I think they line extensions of previous models. Amazing yes, but line extensions. The previous models were pretty darn good; even my F4i from 2001 is an extremely good bike.

But to my mind, they are not the radical departures from everything that has gone before like the VF750F was when it was introduced. Or the original Hurricane CBR600.

 

As part of my role to teach Design for Six Sigma at work, I've been reading a lot of the academic business literature about what makes technology companies successful or not successful. It is clear that for technology-based companies to drive top-line growth, innovation is not only important, but MANDATORY. Innovation is key to driving market share, and long term profitability. Look at what happened to Motorola, they are taking a bath right now because while the Razr was innovative when it came out, all they did subsequently was put out line extensions of Razrs. The CEO said "the next thing after the Razr would be more Razrs...." Wrong, and Motorola is getting hammered in this market right now.

You're right though, that innovative bikes typically do not sell well. But they can sell well if they are innnovative in ways that meet customer's needs and their specification of value, and are marketed appropriately and correctly. Neither of these things is happening at American Honda. The key is to understanding customer needs by doing appropriate VOC (Voice of the Customer) work (contextual inquiry followed by statistically valid Kano survey and analyses), and then developing innovative solutions to these problems. But Honda uses Focus Groups rather than VOC to obtain customer needs, and this is less than an ideal way. Why? Because a single dominant voice can dominate the focus session, and rather than getting a clear understanding of all of their customers specification of value for their requirements for a new sportbike, they only get the dominant voice. Again, the wrong approach.

 

In a round a' bout way I would have to say - Yes. As these machines are the AMA homologated weapons of choice for Honda Racing USA, why would you risk a V4 based repli-racer release that would flood the American market with another machine, that, A.) They won't be racing, and, B.) Will be competing for market share against the two machines that they currently do race. That's just bad marketing all the way around. Considering that Honda would have to go through the homologation process to race the V4 in the first place is irrelevant, what is relevant is exactly what class would Honda have it homologated for? The current rules for AMA supersport, formula extreme, superstock and superbike don't even carry a class with which this engine configuration would even be allowed to compete. End of story.

As I have said before , What races and wins on Sunday is what sells production units on Monday. This has been the marketing model for these types of machines for a VERY long time. Do you truly think Honda would have left the CBR1000rr alone if they had made the AMA podium as many times as Suzuki did in 2007?, don't kid yourself.

 

Design by committee rarely optimizes benefits. But the alternative is risky. Look at Pierre Terblanche at Ducati. By the way, I am a huge Pierre Terblanche fan. He designed a number of Ducatis that really advanced the marque, in my opinion anyway. I loved the 999/749 and the MTS and the HyperMotard. I like his SuperSport designs, too. He had a vision and wasn't afraid to take risks. The public didn't agree and now he's gone. Honda is just playing it safe. The investors appreciate that, no doubt. But Honda still makes some kick-butt bikes. You own two of them.

 

Agreed, design by committee rarely optimizes benefits, but design by a sharp, cross-functional team can really do impressive stuff.
Honda IS playing it safe, that's what concerns me. They used to be fearless.

No doubt about that...actually, I own three of them, at least for now.

 

Impressive!

I really got to give it up to you guys! This thread has completely changed around. I can actually read it now without feeling like somebody is ramming bamboo shoots under my fingernails, LOL! Very Nice Gentleman, Very Nice.

 

Thanks, we aims to please.

I like your guys' new battalion insignia, BTW.

 

Thanks for the props! I can't say enough good things about the effort put in by JasonSmith to create that little gem for all of us 6th Gen guys. He's the one that made it happen.

 

:redface: Thanks mate, anything for the Gen 6 Bro's, plus when ya go to war ya gotta look good. :heh:

 

Am I am member of the 6th Generation Militia now. You bet!

 

We're gonna have to order a couple more kegs and at least 2 more dancers, it's gettin nice and crowded here at the Miliitia party,LOL! :biggrin:

 

Haha!

:biggrin:

 

+1 :wink:


glad to see this thread turning towards a positive

 

Not to criticise the Gen 6 otherwise the Gear driven Cams work for me on 2 levels, most important is on mechanical reliability in that I've heard of Gen 6 Cam chain adjusters failing and the at least one cam chain failing but have never heard or a Gear Driven Cam's failing on a VFR...

On a personal level ear plugs in on tour in admit it makes no difference but when tooling through the city back streets to work or popping over to a mates place there is something primaeval in hearing the Gen 5's GDC pitch increasing and decreasing as you ride, for me it makes going slow feel cool and a bit of a shame the VFR has lost a uniqueness. :frown: