The reason for my new avatar

I'll have to figure out what I did and make sure I never do that again.

 

Thanks for your service too!

 

I'm well aware of minorities (some of them) who have served throughout US history. On another topic, I feel that those illegal immigrants who have served honorably deserve citizenship too.

I still believe in Liberty and Justice for All.

To provide a counterpoint to your absolute and generalized statement on "disenfranchising" - I have "seen and experienced first hand" that [all, as you suggest] law enforcement does NOT "disenfranchise the poor, certain race and homeless veterans." ::shrug::

 

There should be no counterpoint to prove; if there is truly "Liberty and Justice for All" then there should never be disenfranchisement at all, regardless of rich or poor, race, homeless or not, citizen or not.

 

My point was that on a forum like this, my statement "proves" as much as yours...

If dreams were reality, along with no "disenfranchisement at all", there would be no need for any LE or military either...

 

This thread is under the category of "Anything Goes"; which should be considerate of anything in this thread.
Your attempt to "prove" existence of good LE to "Protect & Serve" is a given, that's just LE doing their job as they should, as they vowed before taking their job, as they are paid.

There is no need to prove that good LE occurs as they should be.

Just because you can prove that good LE exist, does not equate to Silent Protests against police brutality and racial inequality during LE are things that people should be ignore.

But natural disasters are not dreams.. LE or military are still needed to "Protect & Server" even if people are not disenfranchised.

 

"To provide a counterpoint to your absolute and generalized statement on "disenfranchising" - I have "seen and experienced first hand" that [all, as you suggest] law enforcement does NOT "disenfranchise the poor, certain race and homeless veterans."

Hmm, not sure I agree with this completely. I lived in a smaller city, around 50,000 people, and I personally knew 3 members of the
police force. All three were horribly biased. "Porch monkeys" and similar derogatory comments were the order of the day for them. Their
response when asked about the name calling was that they were just calling it as they saw it.

I'm not painting all LEO's with the same brush, but some places don't have as strict a racial policy as others. And some people are just
plain asshats, regardless of their occupations.

 

Maybe you'd agree that asshats shouldn't be LEOs in the first place and if they act as asshats in uniform that's something that shouldn't be allowed by all of public?
Public service takes a certain type, just like any other job.
But when LEOs are the only ones to investigate themselves, that hardly gives room for the public to voice their "asshat" experience with LEOs; that's the reason for silent protest.

Maybe you have a personal relationship with your local LEOs, but you cannot ignore the LEOs in other places.
Major cities where millions of people live, that's called majority.
LEOs in the majority, do not care about each citizen's names when they answer calls, they are trained to respond to situations, not to names.

 

I absolutely agree that asshats should not be LEO's, but IME law enforcement tends to attract certain types of individuals that enjoy wielding some power over others. It's up to the departments to insure these individuals don't make it past the vetting process, but nothing is perfect so you inevitably end up with some less than desirable law officers. Pay a higher salary and you should get a higher caliber of law officer, pay peanuts and you may not get what you really need.

They may be trained to respond to situations, not to names, but sometimes they are just as likely to respond to color and ethnicity, and escalate an almost negligible issue into a major problem. It's a very tough job, and not one I could do. I'm guilty of tending to expect people to behave a certain way depending on their skin color and ethnicity. I consciously know this and try to avoid it, but attitudes developed over 50 years are tough to dislodge.

 

OTOH, IMnshO, police brutality and racial inequality aren't as bad or widespread as some continue to allege. Police brutality definitely doesn't occur as often as many people claim and, as I've said before, once you've got one of your people as the POTUS IMnshO you really should STFU with claiming "the man's keeping you down"...

Responses to natural disasters does Not require the services of either LE or the military - all you need are groups of people working together and maybe an organization or two specializing in help, recovery, and rebuilding.

 

Every group has bad apples, some more than others. LE is one of the few professions with strict(er) hiring practices and procedures. Things that would disqualify you from being an LEO would still allow you to be a lawyer, or politician, or a doctor/nurse or even the POTUS.

Public Service and Public SAFETY are two related but very different animals.

As far as the "public" investigating LE, and I've already stated this, you have to realize that the vast vast vast majority of the public does not know jack sh1t about LE work. They do NOT have a leg to stand on when judging the actions of LEOs. Even the SCOTUS recognized this when delivering their opinion for Graham v Connor - "The "reasonableness" of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, and its calculus must embody an allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions about the amount of force necessary in a particular situation." Note that it says Reasonable OFFICER and NOT Reasonable Person (which is a different standard).

Since this thread is football related - a football analogy would be me or someone, never having played organized football, not knowing the rules of the game, not knowing what each player is supposed to be or allowed to be doing, suddenly being placed in the position of either Coach for one of the teams in the superbowl OR color commentary of the superbowl.

My issue with you talking about LEOs is that you're taking perhaps the behavior of a few LEOs that you Might have had "first hand" experience with and then generalizing that for ALL LEOs, everywhere. Erroneous.

Even your last statement - "LEOs in the majority, do not care about each citizen's names when they answer calls, they are trained to respond to situations, not to names." If you say "majority" that means that you (absolutely) KNOW something for or about OVER 50% of ALL LEOs - highly doubtful. Then you go on to say they are "trained to respond to situations, not to names" - really. How much LE training have you had and then, how are you INTIMATELY FAMILIAR WITH THE TRAINING FOR OVER 50% OF ALL LEOs to be able to accurately make that statement???? I'd be willing to bet everything I own and everything you own that you're in no position to accurately make those claims and that it's just verbal diarrhea coming from your pie hole.

Pretty sure that it doesn't matter to you but you're just one more ignorant comment away from being clicked too.

 

There are other types of individuals that LE work attracts as well - not only some who "enjoy wielding some power over others".

As far as attracting, hiring, and retaining qualified LEOs? That's a whole other (important) topic too. If people in a profession are repeatedly castigated, libeled, slandered, and/or unfairly punished (not even bringing physically assaulted/attacked/killed into the equation) by most of the media, by special interest groups, by people on one side of the political spectrum, by the vocal minority of the population, ETC ad nauseam - MANY well-qualified candidates are NOT going to be interested in that profession, no matter how noble or important that profession is or how much money people in that profession are getting paid.

Not everyone can do LE work. On the flip side not everyone currently in LE should be doing LE work or is good at it. Also, there are a Lot of people who would definitely be good at LE work but, for whatever reasons, aren't doing it.

I am fond of saying that a job or title doesn't make a man or woman. LE work isn't for everyone. It is arguably more important to be a good father, mother, brother, sister, son, daughter, etc. Hopefully at least a good, decent member of society. There are plenty of Good people who aren't LEOs and there are a lot of people who support LEOs, even if they aren't as vocal about it as all the detractors.

And btw, even with all the crap that LE/LEOs have been going through in recent times and ever increasing instances of being assaulted and killed every year, there are a LOT of young(er) kids still signing up to do the job and, like those people who volunteer to sign up for the military, all else being equal, that should be recognized and commended.

As far as personal life experiences and biases go - well, everyone has life experiences and knowledge and some biases are legitimate and justified. I'm not going to expect every member of X skin color or ethnic group to be a scumbag. If, however, X person also happens to be dressed like a gang member, acts and talks like a gang member, and is hanging out with other doing the same - guess what, I'm gonna categorize that person to be a scumbag and take precautions and 99.9999% (yes, I made that up) of the time, I'm gonna be Right. IF on the .0001 chance that I'm wrong, and that person is upset that I categorized him/her that way - maybe, just MAYBE, he/she should have been more intelligent than to associate him/herself with real gang members like that.

 

Sorry about that, I was running my mouth like Cat (stating that ALL LEOs are a certain way) for emphasis.

Again Yes, there are bad apples in LE. There are also good men/women who aren't "bad apples" but aren't the best at what they do or for LE work. There are also good men/women who are "usually" good officers but you might catch them on a bad day or caught up in a moment where they aren't acting or responding how they were trained or how they would normally be as a person.

"porch monkeys" and similar comments/names/phrases are definitely not professional.

"I'm not painting all LEO's with the same brush, but some places don't have as strict a racial policy as others. And some people are just plain asshats, regardless of their occupations." Now THAT IMO is a fair and accurate statement!

 

Anyway, back to the topic – I started writing an explanation, starting with my dad legally immigrating to the US with $500 (or $800 I don’t remember exactly) in his pocket, to me and my younger brother growing up as a minority in various parts of the west and east and then west again coasts, to me flunking out of UCLA SEAS getting readmitted but then never finishing, to what I do now that many would consider a blue collar member of the middle class (basically I’ll never be rich), and my thoughts about the US and how we humans are screwing up the planet, etc but I don’t think any of that would make anyone change their mind about things so fuggedaboutit…

I guess bottom line is that regardless of its faults and imperfections, I appreciate and support this country and the opportunities it provides, the pledge of allegiance, the flag, and the national anthem, etal. I don’t agree with protesting during the national anthem and find it extremely chutzpah for kapass to be protesting. I also find it outrageous for anyone to claim that kapass has sacrificed anything and detest that nike has chosen to take his side and support everything that kapass believes and represents.

Fwiw, I do believe in FOS (not carte blanche) and the right to Peacefully and LEGALLY assemble and protest and I’ve defended both even when I vehemently didn't agree with what was being said or protested.

Also, with regards to veterans, I’ve said before that I work with quite a few. What I didn’t mention before is that I’m also quite familiar with some of the problems veterans face because my wife has been a registered nurse for the VA for about 25 years or so and has been part of this https://www.polytrauma.va.gov/ for quite awhile. (and personally think that protesting during the national anthem is disrespecting everything that veterans (and LEOs) - all of whom are IMO better people and more worthy than kapass - have done for this country; even if it was some SEAL who suggested kneeling to kapass…)

 

I'll just leave this right here. Says it all.

 

At least I know my Rights when facing cops abusing their power.

Your foul language is uncalled for, ignore list you go.

 

Haha Knew It! - ::CLICK::

 

You really are a petulant child aren't you?

 

As mentioned before.. failure of parents teaching manners at home and failure of primary education & beyond.

More about systemic disenfranchisement: