Stranger on your bike

Have you ever been in a street fight? I have. Very bad things happen in street fights. I have no desire to engage in a fist fight with thugs. I am moderately versed in hand to hand combat but nowhere near good enough to confindently engage in a fist fight. :boxing:

At the time, I was a part-time rifle & pistol range safety officer and a firearms instructor. I probably know more about gun safety and their proper use than 90% of the people on this board. The other 7 guys were involved with Law Enforcement is some fashion.
1. hand to hand instructor for local police department
2. armorer for local police
3. & 4. retired cop
5. & 6. retired USAF cop
7. Owner of a firearms dealer that does 90% of his business to local police or Military.

The officer that responded to our complaint was friends with 4 of the guys I was with. He said we 100% correct with the way we handled the situation. I knew full well what I was doing and there was no way I was going to resort to fist fighting unless I had no choice. We got the desired effect instantaneously. That's the whole point of a CCL, having the means to defend yourself. Everyone should know the police are overwhelmingly under-manned and you simply cannot depend on them for your safety. That's not an insult to police, it's a statement of fact.

I now live in a Communist Hell Hole that deprives it's citizens of the right of self defense. :frusty: That sucks & its a terrible feeling to know that you are going to be charged with a crime if you must defend yourself with violence.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

This is where an alarm can be fun, even entertaining. Just hit the button, and watch the reaction, people don't expect alarms on bikes.

It can be quite entertaining. About 10 or more years ago, when I had my CBR600 F3, I tended bar at a place with a lot of windows. Being at the end of a mall, there were a lot of kids, not thugs, just bored kids. You would see them start to walk over to it, looking around, looking at each other, nudging each other, the bravest one walking right up to it, reaching out towards the handlebar or seat to prove to the others how brave he was.... then WHAMO, I hit the panic button on the remote, with the optional louder siren (Scorpio), and the kids would nearly crap themselves running away. Me and whatever bar crowd I had that night nearly dying of laughter.
Lots of fun that was.
Same with people who parked too close, give it a couple of chirps to warn them off.

As much as I love my bike, I am never going to shoot anyone over it. It is an object, and not worth a life. Even an idiot's life. Even if I ever were to carry a gun. Whether legally right or wrong, you would always have to know you killed someone. Not something I am into if I can avoid it, thanks.

 

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. Doesn't mean every criminal has a gun. I have lived in Sydney all my life and seen some pretty bad stuff (I grew up in a pretty rough suburb) and haven't seen a gun produced by anyone other than a policeman.

The ability to choose sounds great, but do you truly think everyone carrying a gun in the states thinks long and hard about this and the potential consequences of carrying and/or using a gun? I doubt it. I also wonder how you assess whether someone has the right mental state before granting them permission to carry a gun.

Sorry, I don't mean to turn this into a debate about guns. I have my views and they are probably vastly different from most of you, but I think that is because of where I live (and despite where I grew up).

 

........so...if some jackass is there sitting on "your" bike,..and refuses to get off and render it back to you,is it considered officially stolen?....and if the police arrive at that juncture in time....what charges would they face?
seems to me that if some turd is into screwing with your property, they get what they deserve, if i came to that.

 

hey if you didn't kill em then you didn't over react. I am a big guy and if I saw someone sitting on my baby without my expressed permission. I am going to read them the riot act about respecting other peoples personal property. I won't touch someone elses bike without asking first. I have friends who wish they had a bike, ask me to let them ride mine. I'll tell them to let me ride their wife and it's a deal. you wouldn't ask some one if you could borrow their child would you? I love my Interceptor it is my baby. besides have you priced the plastic on these things? Dang
Danimal

live fast, ride hard, die young and make a good looking corpse
:first:

 

I agree with reg71 for the most part about a bike being nothing but a material thing, and in general, not something I would be willing to shoot someone over. That being said, a co-worker of mine and his buddy were out riding one day and stopped at a gas station and both bikes were jacked at gun point. Granted no one got hurt, but I feel better knowing that if the schitt hits the fan, I know I could defend myself and my family....not in the interest of being a hero but in the interest of self preservation.

A few months ago, a guy on another forum spoke of an incident that occured at a stop light. The light was red and a crack head on the side of the road claimed to have a knife and demanded the bike and then attempted to pull him off of it. He started to comply and then he changed his mind and decided to fight for it. By standards called the police as a result of the strugle and all worked out OK. But had it been me and I had my son, duaghter, or wife on the back....with the threat of a knife....you better believe that I would not let it get to a physical strugle...I would draw my weapon....even use it if necessary...not because of the bike....but because of the threat/danger to my family.

 

First off, there is nothing wrong with turning this into a debate as long as everyone is respectful of the other opinions. Debating is a great way of getting ideas out in the open and learning to see things from a different point of view. I respect the fact that you do not feel the need nor have the desire to carry a handgun. As I said before, I believe that it is a personal choice that everyone makes and carrying a handgun is not for everyone. But I am glad that I live in a society that allows me to have the choice. And to be honest, every morning I make a decision about carring or not. Just because I have a CHL, does not mean I carry a handgun every where I go. I make that decision every day...i.e. If I am not feeling well and/or not had enough sleep or taking cold medication or something...I will not carry.

I'm not sure how it is handled in other states but in Texas, as a part of the application for a CHL the applicant is required to give the CHL issuing authority (in this case the Department of Public Safety aka DPS) permission to review the applicants medical history. They check your medical records to see if the applicant has ever had any issues with mental stablility...ever been perscribed medication for mental stablity...on a perscribed "mind or mood altering" medication. They also do an extensive back ground check (to include running fingerprints) at all levels (including juvenal history) ie. City records, County Records, State Records, and Federal records (conducted by an FBI agent). Also here in Texas, the law requires that the issuing authority...DPS...provide yearly statisics on crimes committed by CHL holders as opposed to non CHL holders ( i beleve they are based on arrest ...not convictions). These statics include the number of applicants issued a CHL and the number of applicants declined (and the reasons for being declined). The statistics are used to determine how well DPS is weeding out the undesirables and from what I have seen they are doing a pretty good job.

(I will post the link to the statistics if you want.)

 

I also forgot to mention that applicants are required to take a weapons proficiency test and a 12 to 15 hours classroom course.

The proficiency test is the same test that DPS is requried to take with the exception of "Off Hand" shooting...DPS is requried to qualify using single hand....both strong and off hand.

The classroom portion covers the following subjects (not limited to these subjects):
The Law:
where one can and can not carry.
rules about concealment.
use of deadly force.
"threat" of use of deadly force.
protection of personal property.
how the law changes if an incident occurs at night (night time changes a lot).

It also covers dispute resolution techniques.

At the end there is a graded test on the subject matter covered in class.

 

Guns laws have ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH, NADA effect on crime. This has been statistically proven many times over. Even the Brady Bill crowd, who predicted gun fights in the streets the minute the 10 round magazine/assault rifle ban expired, has admitted that said law had absolutely no effect on reducing crime. Not when the bill was passed during the Clinton Admin or now when it expired. When you take guns, any guns, away from law abiding citizens you can bet your life that crime will actually go up. The criminals know that only other criminals have guns so they are pretty much free to do as they please to anyone. One need look no further than the UK. Pretty much every gun other than single shot shotguns are banned and the crime rate there has gone up like 600% in the last 30 years. It's sad really.

What's even worse is the people who simply do not understand or care about the rights of others. They say since THEY don't like or approve of firearms then NO ONE should be able to own one. That's a bunch of BS no matter what you say.

I have been in the position to point a gun at someone exactly twice. Both times, I got the desired result instantly with out even taking the safety off. My wife was almost assaulted by 4 thugs (the same 4 that stole my original 2000 VFR) in SC. One of them had her by the hair, another by the arm. By some miracle, she was able to get her .357 Mag snub-nose out of her purse. The only thing that stopped these pieces of human garbage was the fact there was now a .357 Mag revolver loaded with Federal Hydra-Shok's pointed at thier heads. She told them to back off or die. One of them didn't and she pulled the hammer back. They all ran after that. It took over 2 weeks for her to calm down and we had to move since she was so traumatuzed she wouldn't leave the place with out me & A GUN with her. I don't want to think what would have happened if she didn't have that .357 with her. Gun control is BS plain & simple.

KC-10 FE out...
lane:

 

I have been following this thread with interest. Living in Canada carrying a gun is not an option but I agree with reg71. I just hate to see rights taken away as it usually means everyone is treated like an idiot because a few are. Personally I wouldn't carry as I believe the risk of having a firearm around children(my kids) is to great. So what would I do. Much as I love my bike it doesn't fall into the same category as my family. I would sure be pissed but!! I would assess the situation and if I felt there was minimal risk I would ask said person/s to get of. Otherwise I would probably call 911. Now I have miltary training so I am not being a woos here but I also know how easily shit can happen in this type of situation and it is just not worth getting hurt over. I accept a certain risk by riding a bike (my drug) but I don't believe in taking unnecessary risk. At least I can replace the bike but I can't replace me.

 

Not entirely true, but your intended point is correct. I was involved in an analytical study on violent crime back in the mid/late nineties. The focus was on violent crime rates as a result of the Dianne Feinstein/Barbara Boxer gun control law implemented in CA a few years earlier. If anyone in CA remembers, it was a really restrictive measure and they pretty much shoved it down our throats as the greatest law ever passed. Incredibly, violent crimes concerning firearms actually rose! No concrete determination can be made why exactly, but the fact remains the gun control law did nothing to decrease the rate. Their measure has since expired...thankfully.

 

KC-10 FE,

I'm not sure your remarks are based on my comments above. But just to clairify things, I was not refering to gun laws and their affects on crime rates. I know when they said in FL that the "Stand your ground" rule now applies to vehicles the anti-gun lobbyist said it would be the wild west with gun battle in the streets. But later, those critics had to recant their statments as it is not like that at all (there is an article to this affect in a recent issue of Guns and Ammo magazine) so i agree with your statment. My point was that the CHL system...at least here in Texas...works because the statistics show that the CHL holders are, in-fact, law abiding citizens and they are not commiting crimes. I was saying this to address someone elses comment about "who" should determine ones state of mind when issuing a license. Point being, there are processes in place to reduce the risk of unqualified people having a CHL.

I can't wait until they pass a Federal Reciprocity (House bill H.R 4547 and Senate bill S 3275) to force all states to acknowledge my CHL. Right now only about 15-20 other states recognizes my valid CHL.

 

I'm not taking shots at anbody or their views. I'm just writing my opinion & experiences.

KC-10 FE out...
lane: