Starting problems, cutting out, poor fuel economy

Damn, that sucks. I was thinking and hoping this was going to be a "quick fix".

I shit out of other ideas for you Bsims, but I hope you can get it all sorted out. Definitely keep us posted.

 

I will be interested to see what happens after you put some new plugs in it. I have a 98 and a few years ago I put some more expensive iridium plugs in and they did fine for a while. Then it seemed out of nowhere it started missing and
stumbling real bad. Of course I started thinking the worst and tried all sorts of things. Finally I put my old regular plugs back in and been running great ever since. Hopefully it is something simple for you as well.

 

Has the wiring recall work been done? I only ask because one day my bike would start but then immediately die then once I got it running it would keep cutting out when using the turn signals 6000 rpm - 0 - 6000 rpm - 0 - 6000rpm - 0 -... As the signals blinked on and off. (I don't know just how bad your bike is cutting out.) I traced my problem *back to a poor ground in either the grey or blue electrical connectors on the left side of the bike. My quick fix was to slightly bend the male pins so they made better contact to the female side. Not sure if the map sensor wiring goes thru the same connectors. I do know the speed sensor wiring does. If your speedometer is working but you get a code for speed sensor then it is most likely the nylon coupling between the sensor and the bolt on the front sprocket. It looks like a socket and gets worn, even slightly will set a code. I think it's only 8-9 dollars. It does sound like a fouled spark plug so I would also suggest replacing them but I've never heard of an intermittent fouled plug. Maybe a coil pack breaking down. You might try a spark checker if it still runs poorly after spark plug change. Good luck!

 

Just tore the machine down, got the thermostat out. It was definitely stuck open, nearly 1/8".....as far as why the bike continued to cut out on me, I still have no idea. I pulled all 4 plugs, they are dark on the ground a bit, but are gray where the spark conduction occurs, and from what I have seen, this indicates normal spark. I am going to reassemble up to the throttle body tonight, and will leave the plugs out just in case anyone thinks they are the culprit (I hope not, at between $8 to $16 each).
As far as your wiring issue is concerned Mr. Sleep, per the dealer, the recall has been performed, and I have not seen any burnt out connectors. The engine has been cutting out on me when applying throttle, and when I continue to apply throttle while rolling after it stalls, it just 'boggs' when I twist the throttle. Anything in the fuel system comes to mind, fuel pump, fuel injectors, any number of sensors, etc....I will most likely be taking it to the dealer for them to diagnose. The bike has not indicated any self diagnoses that I can read, so hopefully the dealer can see something with the ECU.


BTW, I had seen on the T-Stat replacement post that this is a several beer job, but I am allergic, so does anyone know the conversion rate to Whiskey?

 

Are you familiar with checking for spark on your plugs? Someone correct me if it can't be done on the ceptors. But i always put the plug in the cap and put the tip of the plug on something steel like a cylinder. bolt and turn the motor over and. see if the plugs spark. One at a time of course

 

I checked the service manual and yes you can do the spark test. I'm assuming you don't have a service manual? Some of the first things it says about your symptoms is checking for fuel flow and then spark and then of course compression. If you plan to keep this bike for a while it would be the best thing you could invest in is the factory service manual. It will be the same thing the mechanic at honda will refer to. I try to get one for evey bike I ever get and never take my bike to a dealer.

 

Have you performed the voltage tests for the throttle position sensor and carefully inspected the wire harness plugs and wiring in that circuit for any corroded wire terminals,breaks,shorts,or frayed wiring yet?

I know there's a fault code for that but it couldn't hurt to check as long as you've got the bike disassembled.

 

Took a test ride today, Thermostat operates as it is intended. The bike stalled only a couple times on the same route that I had much more trouble with earlier in the week - same way as before, very random, either at take off or at highway speed, no indications, running just fine. From what I have seen here and elsewhere, it is either fuel delivery or an electrical issue.
Per the troubleshooting in the manual I have been looking at 'Engine does not start or is hard to start', 'Poor Performance at Low/idle Speed', and 'Poor performance at high speed'

I have my doubts that it is a spark issue, as all 4 spark plugs were in great condition, although they are to be replaced in 4,000 miles per the manual.
Manual states to inspect ignition timing (need a timing light....$40+, might just take it to the dealer if I have to start buying more tools....), inspect PGM-FI system...,plugs, valve timing....and inspect valve springs (hope to avoid this), compression test, starter valve inspection....any of these I could avoid or cross off would be great if you all have any ideas.

Other ideas:
Bad Fuel
Fuel Stop Relay Inspection
Fuel Filter Change

Thanks all! Hope the weekend was good, I'll probably start working again tomorrow or later this week, I needed a night off....

 

Bsims - how many miles are on this bike?

Here's what not sitting well: These bikes seldom have the onslaught of problems your dealing with. Its possible, but just so rare. And considering they are intermittent, that makes it even more troubling.

Now maybe its just stuck in my brain here because of how my bike has been behaving recently, but I started having problems with my speed sensor (11 blinks) Then my MAP/Baro sensor. (10 blinks) Then my battery went dead (4 years old). I finally realize I have some electrical issues, due the infamous R/R.

I'm not saying you have R/R issues, but have you checked as many connections as possible? Front to back, top to bottom?

It just seems like there should be a common denominator for all these problems, and its staring us in the face, but we can't see it.

 

You sure look unhappy in your avatar photo.


You cannot diagnose any electrical problem unless you have a solid reliable source of 12 volts.
READ THAT TWICE.
You said the battery is 4 years old.
Did you notice every time you said it cuts out you are RIDING the bike? Not when it is parked.
Many times that is a loose or dirty battery cable believe it or not.
Those computers work on +or- 1 volt.

Also have you been putting some SEAFOAM fuel conditioner in the tank to keep that moisture in sus pension?


If you brought this bike to me and with all of these scattered out stories I would start from the very beginning.

Battery ...REPLACE. CLEAN the terminals too. Do not just install.
Fuel ....New filter and Seafoam.
I would visually check all electrical connections and spray with electronics cleaner.
Plug and unplug to make sure you have a good connection.
MAP sensor. It is either good or bad. They can be cleaned too. They get built up dust on them. Be very careful with those.

You also did not tell us the year, or how many miles are on the bike.
Most all mechanics start with a GOOD visual inspection with a bright LED light BEFORE testing any components.

CLEAN the battery terminals .

ALSO BEFORE you can diagnose any fuel injection system, you must first have the correct fuel pressure at the fuel pressure regulator or pump. What is the fuel pressure supposed to be?
Do you have a workshop manual?

It seems like you are working hard, but jumping all over the place with no organized plan.


Do the electrical checks first and visual inspection,
then move onto the fuel system.

To check the spark you do not have to even take spark plugs out. JUST clip a DC inductive timing light onto any spark plug wire and it will tell you if the spark is consistant.(While under compression).
Plug it onto each cylinder one by one and study the pulse long enough to really see it .

Forget about the head gasket thing.

ONE LAST THING.

Intermitent always means electrical or electronic.
When you accelerate it bogs or cuts out? Like the ignition key being turned off? ----Almost always the battery connection.
Get a new battery bro. It's time.

 

Check the connection circled in yellow and the connector into which it is plugged. Hope the attachment show up.

 

You made the comment in your first post of "constant chatter from your crankcase" is that still going on?

 

Donald, Thanks for the plan. Looks like a good order of pursuit.
FYI, the bike is a 2003 with just over 28,000 miles.
The battery was replaced last year, with a Gel Type. I did some research today and apparently there is a special type of tender for them, therefore I am afraid with using my standard battery tender that I may have harmed it. I hope not, as these are not cheap, and I sold my old one on ebay for $20 :/

When the bike cuts out, it is instant, as in similar to turning the key or kill switch. After it dies if I roll throttle at that point it will bogg.

I noticed the R/R is on the right side, and had a right side crash last spring. I am also curious if it was unvisibly damaged or grounds torn loose. Will be looking over these soon.

 

Taylor65: "You made the comment in your first post of "constant chatter from your crankcase" is that still going on?"

It is actually, but goes away when the bike/oil warm up enough. I feel there may still be some moisture still somewhere in the system. may need another round of fresh oil.

 

I think I read in another post where someone was having problems with their kill switch and all they did was clean it and it fixed their problems. Now that you say instantly dies and bogs it certainly sounds like a kill switch or the ignition switch or some wire in that area. So when it isn't cutting out does the bike run fine?

 

Thanks taylor, I will add the kill switch to the list.

I did some inspecting of the electrical, and noticed today when I got home after several stalls that the rectifier smelled of something fierce. I inspected the wiring suggested by vfr2k and noticed one of the connectors was rusted/corroded (could explain the blown 30 amp fuse for the FI system I had last summer)
The wires from the stator to the R/R had a black goo on them, and the connector was corrode as well.
Am I safe to assume that I need to replace these wires, as well as the rectifier?

 

Bsims - here's the most recent thread that I know of as far as stators, R/R, and wiring.

http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanics-garage/37595-melted-stator-wires.html

Before assuming the R/R is shot, have you checked your voltage at various intervals?

 

You will see that the short wire with the burned connector that leads back to the fuse is of a smaller gauge than the wire that runs from the battery positive post to the fuse connector. You need to change this wire and connector. Use 12 ga wire and a new connector. You should of course change the fuse and fuse connector. Fix this and clean the other connectors you have shown and the you will be a happy camper. The short section of wire coming out of the fuse should not have been made from a smaller gauge. Along with the connectors in this short length of cable too much resistance is introduced.

 

Just talked to the dealer who told me last year that my Harness recall had been performed, only to find that Honda has no record. Service Manager offered to look it over and fix it since Honda has no record. I plan to have them test the stator and r/r while there as well, hoping they are ok, but should be covered if they have been damaged....thanks all for your help, and will keep you posted on what I find out. Wonder if I can get a new battery too?

 

If the recall repair was done there should be a punchmark next to the VIN on the steering head, if it's not there then I'd say the repair never happened. As for the stator/RR, that "is separate matter, unrelated to the issues addressed in the recall."