motorycycle training does not reduce crash risk

Im for the tierd licensing program like they have in Europe. I think there should be a minimum basic training course, but the problem there is it can get overcrowded and the "passed" stamp is used complacently. Helmet laws? Well, Im not a fan of gpv't always telling you what to do, but if a rider has common sense, he will be more likely to survive, if not, well you're on your own. I dont know about other states, but in NY, you DO NOT need a license to purchase, insure & register a motorcycle, never understood that.

 

How did you extrapolate that he was hating from "This message is hidden because Joey_Dude is on your ignore list"?

 

OK, let's apply some critical thinking...........

Those most likely to undertake mandatory training are either new or relatively inexperienced riders, or ones who have had issues with the law and have been sent back to school. In the case of new riders the training they typically get is that of basic instruction on how to operate a motorcycle, in a parking lot. In any other training scenario, be it firefighting, file clerking, brain surgery, McDonalds cook, accounting, the new grad is almost always the one who makes most mistakes, and in the case of riding a motorcycle, by default, the ones who are most likely to be in an accident. Thus the idea of basic training per se is not at fault, but the type and length of current training is clearly not up to the task of making new riders safer on the road. For those of us who have committed time and money to becoming better riders, and who are committed to riding, training serves to enhance an already partially developed set of skills. So advanced rider training is in no way comparable to new rider training as there are already two self selected groups: those who already have some skill and actively want to improve them, and those who have essentially no skills, who not only don't know what they don't know, but who also have no idea if riding a motorcycle is something they are going to want to do for more than a week after actually getting on the road.

More riders get killed in motorcycle accidents because there are fewer safety features (mandated or otherwise) on motorcycles. That is what is so important about the ABS portion of the study. It will not be long before ABS is required on all motorcycles because they actually make riding safer, and their use is not dependent on the riders preference. Not so helmets.

It would be more instructive to see a study comparing accident rates from Europe, for experienced riders who have had tiered licensing and/or additional training, with a similar cohort of American riders who have not had any advanced rider training.

Pissing and moaning about socialism, communism, nanny states, big gov'mint, insurance companies and the like has nothing at all to do with making you and I safer on the road.

The MSF is essentially the 'training arm' of the motorcycle industry. Please do not assume that they do not have an agenda.

And remember, training of any sort only works if you use the skills you are taught.

Happy Riding Y'all.

 

Agreed, that was the point of most of my responses.

Oh and to give NCB a chance to be mean.......again..........bwaahahahahahahaa

 

I can only speak from personal experience... but I took the MSF course, and it vastly improved my riding ability... My entire family took the course, and I'm proud to say we haven't had any nasty crashes that involved anyone else (canyon lowsides are our own faults =P)... I have evn used the lessons I learned to avoid several serious traffic collissions (once, a lady locked up her car's brakes on a freeway interchange; on several occassions idiots have changed lanes and nearly waxed me; found a ladder laying in the carpool lane once; dodged a column of balloons floating in the middle of the freeway)

Maybe the problem is the recent inundation of squids that are buyin' brand new crotch rockets... I mean seriously, I've seen so many fresh military kids who spend their enlistment bonuses buyin' bikes like GSXR 750's or Hayabusa or zx14's, when they have no M1 license... there are idiots riding street with just a class C for cars, thinkin' they know how to ride cuz daddy used to take 'em dirtbiking as children... I, for one, am all for courses like the MSF's... they teach you far more than the damn DMV does, and they get you on a bike so you have some actual real world experience... I think it's crap that riders are as regulated as they are, but having seen some of the shitty riders in So Cal, I tend to think maybe it's a good idea to have these courses be mandatory... keeps the village idiots from killin' me, and if ya can't pass, so sad for you, go drive a car.

 

Tell us how you really feel youngin.......

 

+1 Pyro. Unfortunately a lot of the problems we as riders encounter on the road has to do with dumbass' in cagers that can't or wouldn't be able to hack it on two wheels. I'm all for mandatory motorcycle training, or at least a stiffer more real world test at the DMV to show that you do actually know how to ride well enough to be out on the road gaining more experience. However, I think this should apply to four wheels as well. I know quite a few people that regularly bounce their cages off curbs and other stationary objects for no reason other that their complete lack of driving ability. More training dosen't make anyone perfect, but less IMO definately makes you worse (not to offend anyone here who has never taken a single rider course, I'm sure they're plenty of older fellers here that could ride circles around me and never saw a day of class)

 

I agree... I read the comments after the article, and I agree with one in particular. the guy calls for a research study that would investigate how many cagers on cell phones cause motorcycle accidents... I'm totally for a project like that, I wanna know more details about who crashed and why. Maybe the folks crashing are the ones who didn't have any safety classes, or maybe they did and it wasn't their fault they crashed... the article left too many variables unanswered IMO, and it's these variables that we encounter on a regular day on the road... how many of us have seen some cager ease into our lane, too busy on their phone or doin' makeup or eatin' a burger to reralize they almost greased us?

All I'm sayin' is, we as the motorcycling community should do our part, through programs like MSF, to weed out crappy riders and keep 'em off the street; that being said, we should also take into account that, regardless of what wonderful riders we can be/ are, there will always be idiot motorists out there that can put us in harm's way... these "blind" studies don't take into account that John Doe biker was riding for 10 years without a single traffic violation, and Jack Doe in the cage had 4 previous accidents when he hit John head-on...

 

Forgive me for noticing that for a forum that consistently espouses its fear of government interference in any form, it sure seems ready to jump all over mandatory this and that for motorcycle riders.

 

Clarification

@vfourbear valid point... for my part I can clarify, I don't want the Gov't eyeballin' every move I make, but I AM ok with them not facilitating dumbasses who want to get licenses and/or bikes... But then I feel the same way about a lot of things, like gun licensing... I want Big Brother to say "we're gonna make it harder to get the license, but once you've proven you deserve it, do what ya want with it"... That way, no dumbasses get on motorcycles, and those of us who qualify (by passing MSF courses, etc) can have loud pipes and neon and whatever else we wanna do...

All that being said, this world does not conform to my ideas, and gov't will NEVER be that lenient or cool.

But hey, that's just my $0.02