MLI (PGM-FI) indicator always on...?

Discussion in '8th Generation 2014-Present' started by GgBiker, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. GgBiker

    GgBiker New Member

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    Hello the VFR riders !
    I'm new to the forum. I'm from France, so please apologies for my not very good english (but Google translate is my friend :) ).
    My VFR is a grey year 2017-model. After nearly 10 years with a 600cm3 Yamaha fazer, I've changed for the VFR 3 years ago, and since, I was really excited by the Honda V4 motor !
    I'm here today because my VFR seems to be unfortunately in disorder. One morning, the "MLI" (FI indicator) lamp lit on, and never turned off (no blink at all, always on). The motor starts, but the automatic starter doesn't work anymore, keeping the motor in low revs when cold. I've managed to get the service manual, and I've read that this failure can come from a defective ECU... That's a bit disappointing for a 4 years old bike. Has someone ever had this failure ? Are there simple things to do or to check ? Few days before, I ride under a heavy rain, is it possible that this failure is coming from humidity or corrosion in the ECU connectors ? I've taken a appointment with the Honda dealers, but in 2 weeks only...and I'm little bit worried that it will change (and charge) a new ECU, even if there are simpler causes to this.
    Thank you for your answers,

    Regards,
     
  2. PetePower

    PetePower New Member

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    Your suggestion of checking connectors is a good approach. Disconnect battery as well and see if resets? No harm in trying a few things in short term.
     
  3. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    The Fi light being ON might mean it has an active fault code. What is the status of the Fi Light with the Side Stand Down, Kill Switch to RUN and Ignition to On? Does it flash a code?

    Get back to us regards any flashing Fault Code? At this early stage I would definitely Not be randomly pulling plugs like those on the ECM!
    The 8gen is a very reliable bike especially the ECM. Most likely its a sensor issue, and I'm a little suspicious of the MAP sensor.
    These bikes are designed to operate in, and handle, any rainy weather.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  4. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Hi GgBiker and welcome to the forum(Madhouse) from the Haute Savoie.

    When you get time please visit the "Introductions" area of the forum and say Hi to the rest of the folks on here, tell us a bit about your bike and riding history and include a photo of the VFR. It is easy click the link marked "Upload a file" and follow prompts to select and upload a photo from your computer.

    As for the current problem - the standard user manual provided by Mr Honda is no great help - and simply states contact a dealer. However the 8th Gen engine is basically the same as the post 2006 6th Gen so diagnostics for the later vtec should work OK.

    I see Grum has already explained there is a MIL code now stored inside the ECU and the steps you need to follow to get the stored MIL code to display. The big thing to note is the codes from 10 and above will entail a series of long and short blinks of the MIL light. Take a careful note of what happens as there may be more than 1 stored code.

    The 6th Gen video will give you a better idea of how this works and hopefully will give us a better idea of where the problem was and how to clear the MIL code(s) assuming you have located and fixed the fault(s).



    At the moment I suspect it may be due to water getting into the electrics and triggering the fault code, although my 8th Gen survived riding in the recent biblical rain during the abandoned Spa GP race, and for now is still working fine. I certainly think your idea of removing/cleaning and checking connections may be a good starting point - but I would focus my attention on areas flagged up by the MIL code.

    Good luck let us know how you get on.

    SkiMad
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
  5. sudolea

    sudolea New Member

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    As you said you have been riding in heavy rain, I would place a (BIG) bet on some failed coil. Does the MIL error code result into an error in the sense of some "misfire" ? I wouldn't think of the MAP sensor necessarily. The ECU having got wet seems unlikely to me, it's well protected from humidity or moisture.
     
  6. sudolea

    sudolea New Member

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    Another question : does the bike ride normally ( = with it's full power), or is it riding with reduced power ?
     
  7. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Hi Sudolea.
    Bit of a shame we haven't heard back from the OP and by now he's probably paying money to have the problem fixed as he had a two week in advance appointment with a Honda dealership. Think we could have saved him the money, with a little more feedback of his issue I'm sure we could diagnose his problem. Hope he posts whatever the problem was!

    Further to what you've suggested about a failed coil based on the rain he encountered, the ECM has no fault code for an ignition coil failure, so it won't directly bring on the Fi fault light. His bike starts OK and only mentions the cold idle is low and not anything about running rough.
    The coils have a weather proof connector, I've washed my bike (a 2014 8gen) a hundred times spraying a strong jet of water into both front radiators and the oil cooler to remove dead bugs, this also drowns the front coils with water. After washing, I start the bike and get it fully heated up to and beyond normal operating temp to evaporate off moisture around the engine. Never has the bike ever misfired, failed to start, or flagged a fault code. Have also ridden in a couple of very heavy rain events with no issues. On VFRD I can't recall a single 8gen issue that has been caused by rain water ingress.

    I do know of three 8gen's that had similar effects to what the OP is experiencing, all were caused by the MAP Sensor, one was a failed unit and the other two both had vacuum hoses come off. All flagged a Fault Code 2. Another suspect sensor effecting idle could be a faulty ECT, but without the OP coming back with a fault code, We can only guess!

    So without any further info from the OP, we can't offer any more help and we won't learn anything about his issue.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  8. sudolea

    sudolea New Member

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    Hi Grum,

    Only after publishing my earlier reaction, I realised I had been confusing with a previous bike I had a very similar issue with (K1300S) and a more recent misfire on my daughter's car not too long ago. I had been riding in deep water flakes with that K1300S which had resulted into a broken coil (20000 km further, also the lambda sensor seemed to be broken). Hence the link I made with the coil.

    Indeed there isn't any error code for a broken coil on the VFR. But note however that the VFR800F's Service Manual also mentions (page 5-5, the paragraph on "Troubleshooting") water in the coil(s) as a possible cause of a malfunctioning ignition system, how well protected the VFR may be against water (and I believe you that it is, it's a Honda after all :) )
     
  9. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Hey GB Biker - Please can you provide an update?

    Feedback from owners is a key ingredient in keeping this Forum up to date and a valuable reference resource. Only with help from you and others can we spot any new issues which may be developing in the VFR range.

    So assuming Mr Honda has now resolved the problem with your VFR - please let us know what they did to fix it and do not be embarrassed if it was something as simple as the kill switch. Anyway I hope it was easy and cheap to fix and that your concern about needing to replace the ECU was unfounded as an ECU is insanely expensive and entails the cost of new keys cut and programmed.

    As for water ingress being the cause I have my doubts as others have said the 8th Gen does seem a lot more resilient when it comes to severe rain. Indeed my 8th gen handled some biblical rain recently during a long weekend visit to the Vulkaneifel region of NW Germany and of course a trip up to the Nurburgring. Whilst the VFR waded confidently through several miles of riverside flooded roads, it was interesting to see that just over the Belgian border in Spa, the conditions were so bad that the F1 Grand Prix "race" was reduced to the farce of F1 race cars just ambling around the circuit for 3 laps behind the safety car before the race was abandoned.
     
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