Jim's $400.00 1986 VF500F

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Jim McCulloch, Jun 25, 2019.

  1. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Well, anytime I get super desperate with this kind of thing, typically with Brembo shit, I yank the calipers off, push the pistons back as far as they will go and put a piece of metal in there to act as the rotor, hang them above the master cylinder, and bleed them that way. I use the vacuum bleeder to get them close, then go back to the tried and true pump the lever, hold, bleed, repeat, until they are solid. It's a bit fiddly with everything loose, but it normally solves the problem, also, make sure you crack the banjo bolts. I also bench bleed the master first. FWIW, I would replace those OEM lines, they are way past the sell by date.
     
  2. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    Good advice. I tried some of the tricks I use on my Shimano hydraulic Mountain Bike brakes but to no avail.

    Getting that last bubble out is such a bitch.

    I probably need to get kits for the calipers also. I went to my spreadsheet and saw I never rebuilt the calipers.

    I am guessing that stainless brake hoses are probably obsolete, but I will search around for them.

    Kind of forgot about the VF, I have been giving all the love to the HAWK lately.
     
  3. straycat

    straycat Member

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    I can sympathize Jim, went through the same frustration with one of my VF500's a few years ago.

    mine for sure was air in the calliper, not that I recommend this but if you plan to replace the brake lines anyway, I clamped off the brake line above the calliper, and my right side calliper seemed to be my issue (I had a firm lever with the right line clamped off).

    I must have used 4 bottles of fluid trying to bleed that bugger, regular /traditional bleed , reverse bleed, mighty vac, you name it.

    I took the Calliper off and moved it around, rapped on it with a piece of wood to dislodge any air bubbles. That, along with a VERY FAST traditional bleed method seemed to solve my issue.

    Of course, there is risk with clamping any brake lines, especially old ones.

    I had a similar issue on my VF1000R after putting on new brake lines, in that case my problem was using the old Honda banjo bolts instead of the new ones supplied with the lines, turned out the holes in the bolts were ever so slightly different in alignment causing the fluid to not flow properly.
     
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  4. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    put your hand around a brake line while you squeeze the lever and you will feel the line bulging.

    something that also might help is to remove the mc and let it hang vertically suspended by the lever while tapping on the reservoir.

    what pads are you using ?
     
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  5. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    Thanks y'all for the replies...I have a project for tomorrow now!
     
  6. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    If you can stand to have the bike down for a week, pull the lines, call Galfer and ship the lines to them, they will duplicate and send both sets back. HEL does it too, but the old USA HEL guys went flaky as hell and weren't very reliable. I always get my lines from HEL, but I go straight to the UK and buy them direct. I had a great experience with Galfer on my CRF450L build. Bought the rotors, lines and fluid in a package. One stop shopping.
     
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  7. sixdog

    sixdog Member

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    I had the problem Straycat had with the banjo bolt sizes


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. Colddevil

    Colddevil Member

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    I found the three-hose system (stock) a lot harder to get a stiff lever on. However, what finally did it for me after getting the master cylinder in order was to reverse bleed through different steps. I didn't crank down hard on any of the banjos to seriously deform the washers until finished, but you need to get them clamped down enough not to leak. This can be sort of messy, so I had towels jammed all over to try to keep any brake fluid off of paint. The biggest issue is that center connection point of the 3-hose system. Take the front fairing off.
    • Reverse fill with syringe forcing fluid into the bleeder on the left caliper (furthest away) and push it out the cracked bleeder of the right caliper. Banjo on both the 3-hose and master are both tight during this.
    • Left caliper bleeder closed. Lightly crack open the banjo on that center connector unit. Access is a bitch, and I think it's maybe the horn or shroud that gets in the way... anyway, reverse fill into the right caliper bleeder until fluid starts leaking out of the center connector unit. Tighten that center banjo up and get the towels out. Double check for any drips and immediately remove them.
    • Loosen the banjo on the master cylinder. Wrap in towels. Reverse fill from right caliper bleeder until fluid leaks out on master banjo. Tighten banjo and remove towels and double check for drips.
    • Bleed system normally pushing fluid through master cylinder. I still think I had a bubble in that friggen center piece at this point. I basically laid the bike holding it on its side shaking it up and down, and I think that brought the bubble up. Nice stiff lever after that.
    Alternative - buy a 2-line stainless steel brake line system. Reverse fill from each caliper up to the loosened master cylinder banjo. Tighten banjo. Bleed as normal. Be done in under 30 minutes.

    The 2-line system doesn't look as clean, but it's so much easier. I'll never do another 3-line when the 2-line is so much easier and cheaper.

    If you're getting new pads, the EBC Double H Sintered seem to work really well.

    *edit - Both 3-line and 2-line stainless line kits I've used were Galfer.
     
  9. raYzerman

    raYzerman Member

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    If I got it mostly there and the pedal/lever isn't quite firm as I'd like it, is to tie the lever to the bars and leave overnight.... air bubbles seems to consolidate and naturally migrate up to the m/c reservoir.... a little tapping on the lines might help somewhere in the middle of it, but tying the lever seems to help.
     
  10. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    SM, I think they are the stock pads. Or ebay specials. I never really looked but I will do that now.

    The brakes work OK, but not as good as I remembered from the "old days"
     
  11. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    This sounds like the procedure I used on my old 5th Gen VFR. That was by far the hardest bike to bleed, with a million connections on it.

    I just bought a new bottle of fluid so I may give this a procedure a go. Thanks for the effort laying that out for me.
     
  12. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    I am walking out to the garage right now to try this! Can't hurt!
     
  13. raYzerman

    raYzerman Member

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    OTOH, I didn't have a problem bleeding mine, lol. It hadn't been bled by the PO for some time, but it went well, just followed the book. But I did hang up the rear caliper high and left it overnight and that fixed the stubborn bubbles.
    Later I decided to replace all the lines with stainless. Now an empty system, and I didn't have a problem with it either... horseshoes up my butt maybe?

    Bled a couple of ST1300's, very similar but two ABS pumps..... fun, but I just followed the book and it went ok.
     
  14. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    It must be the horseshoes! I have a 1988 Hawk GT and I had had exactly ZERO problems bleeding it last week. Weird.

    The VF500 is really pissing me off.
     
  15. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    Did a bunch of small touch ups on the paint today...can't really tell from 5 feet away...but ain't she a beauty?

    IMG_0399.JPG
     
  16. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    Damned if that did not work....partially. I must have gotten rid of a bunch of bubbles because the lever was WAY more solid today.
     
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  17. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    took my first shot at painting a fender. Getting ready to do a partial paint job on a spare VF500F fairing I bought.

    It is possible to paint with a rattle can. Haters hate all you want, it works it you prep everything 100%.

    This was on my NT650 Hawk, the fender was wasted from UV exposure. I needed practice so I tried the Duplicolor out.

    Look OK from 2 foot, not perfect but considering how bad the base plastic was I call it a win.

    IMG_0403.JPG
     
  18. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Hey man, looks good. This front fender was a just a color match / spray out test for Duplicolor. Was gonna do 2K clear but just decided to spray Duplicolor clear. Didn't even do 100% prep. Came out so good I'm running it for a while.

    20200523_180339.jpg
     
  19. raYzerman

    raYzerman Member

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    The term "rattle can' in the old days meant those crappy nozzles that were just a hole in a plastic button. The new ones today are quite good and more like a spray gun. Best one I've used is on Rustoleum can's where the upper part of the can is a handhold. Duplicolor's are very good as well.
     
  20. Jim McCulloch

    Jim McCulloch New Member

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    Thanks, I know this will temporary but it was much needed practice on a throw away fender.
    I have a spray gun, but paint is so freaking expensive It does not make sense to buy a pint of paint for $60.00 and only use 1/4 of it.
    I did not clear coat it, just wanted to get it on the Hawk so I can ride it.

    When I do the tank I will go all the way and do the 2K clear on it. I think I got this.
     
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