Insurance - Is it Rocket Science?

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by skimad4x4, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    OK its that time of year when biking is pretty much over for a while, and we need to start a good debate raging...

    It may be obvious to most of us on here, but it seems that finally it has dawned on someone in the insurance industry that people who ride motorbikes tend to be a lower risk when they drive cars...

    The attached article implies this outcome is unexpected, and of course fails to ask why or indeed to explore the implications?

    http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle...3-better-behind-the-wheel-of-a-car/23971.html

    At the moment the "Road Safety Lobby" has managed to worm their way into most of the key EU discussions and supported by the car is king lobby who have for far too long campaigned from a position of ignorance and bigotry for ever greater efforts to restrict and discourage two wheeled vehicles - ostensibly to improve road safety. Any fool can instantly stop all road deaths - just lower speed limits to zero - job done go collect your pension/OBE. Sadly we assume our governments will recruit people who speak from experience on such matters so people talking about road safety actually know how to drive cars, motorbikes and trucks who can see the big picture and not be suckered into a narrow "safety is paramount mantra" OK a zero speed limit solves their problem but everyone starves to death ... brilliant! For far too long the logic of their hating motorbikes position has been unchallenged and their approach has been blinkered - preferring to argue for other "vulnerable users" to be banned from the roads - so they can career around the roads in armoured cars oblivious of the carnage they cause.

    When you ride a motorbike you are acutely aware of your vulnerability, and that remains with you whenever you are driving - you will take more time to look before pulling out at junctions - because most of us have personally seen drivers pull out (SMIDSY) even when you are right in front of them with your headlights on and wearing a HiVis. You also know how easy it is to loose sight of a small vehicle in the blind spots of a car and will make a far greater effort to check it is clear before you change lanes or maneuver in a car. You also know how to use your indicators and use them before you change direction - not as you do it. Is it really such a surprise that when bikers get behind the wheel we are better sensitised to what is going on around them?

    As for what this implies, If governments in the EU really do want to improve road safety, then its time for a major rethink on how people can obtain any driving licence - perhaps we should make all prospective car drivers start by riding a 2 wheeled vehicle for at least 2 years before being allowed to seek a licence for a 4 or more wheeled vehicle. This would certainly help with some of our city centre traffic disasters.

    Logically insurers should be offering serious inducements to people who not only have licences valid for cars and motorbikes but also own both! At the moment they seem very happy to charge ever higher premiums on motorbikes and yet we are the lower risk! Lets rip off bikers...

    As for the UK Department of Transport and most of the EU transport "experts" few if any have ever ridden a motorbike and yet they consider themselves "experts - suffice to say they have been far too happy to go along with the Euro junket of motorbike haters! I think it should be mandatory for every Government official in DOT to have a full motorbike license - before they are allowed to attend/represent the UK at any international meeting.

    The latest Euro Parliament decision to impose is MOTs for motorbikes in France despite clear statistical evidence showing that compared with counties like Germany and the UK where testing is mandatory - vehicle defects were identified as a contributory factor in significantly fewer motorcycle accidents in France. Why? Well its obvious - if you own a motorbike in France - its totally down to you to check your bike is safe - if you get it wrong then you die! Suffice to say living in France I always carry out pre-ride safety checks a lot more diligently than I ever did in the UK.


    :potstir:Hopefully that should provide plenty to start an interesting debate - flame on... :flame:



    SkiMad - I'll get my :popcorn:


    OK how's about this idea - ban airbags in cars and fit a really sharp 12 inch spike in the middle of every steering wheel. Perhaps that would encourage people to really pay attention when driving?
     
  2. safetypro10

    safetypro10 New Member

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    Insurance vs motorcycles? Really?

    About all most of us have to do is decide if it goes on our auto policies with our cars or separate, full coverage or liability only (some have a choice). WE MAY get a discount for MSF training, or it may be a requirement.

    To shine a light on your discussion, from a safety standpoint (I am a 30 year Safety Professional, DDC and MSF instructor), yes, the typical MC rider is a safer rider do to our extreme vulnerability. And yes, the typical cage driver is oblivious to the world around them do to better engineered protective systems and "I Don't Care" attitudes. It interferes with their morning latte and texting. Over here, we are screaming for a few more Vehicular manslaughter cases for cagers running over riders at intersections, but you can go to youtube.com and see videos of our POLICE running over riders.

    Solutions? Insurance is not it.

    Protective gear, maybe.

    Attitudes or fear would help.

    Personally, I'm leaning towards violence.

    Flame on.

    Larry
     
  3. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Each state here has it's own rules and regulations concerning licensing to drive or ride and insurance. One example is in the State of Washington where no insurance is required for motorcycles.

    Inferring that there is some insurance requirement to make better riders or drivers is just not valid.

    I sort of like the violence part too or somebody to come up with some of those James Bond gadgets for bikes.
     
  4. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Thanks - I never realised that motorbike insurance was not mandatory in all the states.

    At least it seems you don't have anything like the "nanny state" interference we have in Europe. At least the French biker community won't take things lying down and can organise extremely effective demonstrations at a drop of a hat which get politicians to think again. Sadly the British biking community is so fragmented it has given up and just accepts whatever carp is doled out by local or EU politicians - who are of course the same idiots who devised the latest round of driving tests which have proved to be stupidly dangerous for many learner riders... sadly most of the clowns in Brussels think they are doing a good job. They are so out of touch they really deserve a James Bond gadget... :smile-new:


    SkiMad
     
  5. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Our nannies (The Feds as we call them) do call some of the shots. Each state and each insurer and even some municipalities have both say so and influence. Very complex to say the least.

    My insurer on my bikes is a national company. The broker is in Texas and I live in both Oregon and Washington. Oddly, even though my insurer who is a well known and nationally recognized insurer of all sort of vehicles cannot insure my cars because the broker is in Texas.. Go figger..

    For some real fun between your riding and fun stuff in the snow.., Peruse some of the US "blue laws".
     
  6. Valentino Robbie

    Valentino Robbie New Member

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    I hear lots and lots of people over here say that they think everybody that wants to have a car test should have to do some sort of test on a scooter or motorcycle before they go anywhere in a car.

    EVEN SOME PEOPLE THAT ONLY HAVE CAR LICENCES AND HAVE NEVER RIDDEN A BIKE SAY THIS!

    So, if drivers of only cars agree that there are problems on our roads when it comes to bikes being safer riders than car drivers, the government need to think, think and think again about driving licences.

    Also, with all talk about traffic jams (and be fair, UK roads are a joke compared to the size of US ones), if we had even a few percent less cars on the road and bikes replaced them, bliss!
     
  7. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    The problem with UK roads is that you blokes hired all those Italian traffic engineers back in the day.
     
  8. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    As of 2012, there are over 254 million passenger vehicles and 9 million motorcycles registered in the US alone. Consider that there are 4 million miles of roads and streets in the US and it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that two of these vehicles occupying the same space at the same time is inevitable. Add in the human factor and the probability only increases. Having spent time in foreign countries where the ability to obtain a drivers license is substantially more difficult, it is my opinion that it does not improve the actual ability of the operator.
     
  9. Valentino Robbie

    Valentino Robbie New Member

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    Putting it like that it makes sense, but I have always thought it would be best for everyone if the law was harsher on those that don't drive to standards after they have obtained their licence.

    Now the question is...if you are caught doing stupid things behind the handlebars or behind the wheel a few times, then you have your licence taken away, will that bring down the cost of insurance as there are less 'dangerous' people on the road???
     
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