How to fix common regulator/Stator failures

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by Rubo, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    From what you've described, you definitely have a drain on the battery when it is on the bike. And since it drained
    the battery in 3 hours that one time, it's a pretty fair drain. And also since it seems to be holding the charge off the
    bike, I wouldn't fault the battery. Somewhere is a drain, you might double check the volt meter just to be on the safe
    side. Maybe take it out of the system for a few days, since it seems to be off a bit anyway.
     
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  2. CDA441

    CDA441 New Member

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    Well @FJ12rydertoo I am currently measuring both batteries, the new one inside the bike, and the old one outside of the bike.
    Both seem to hold the same charge for the same days, whereas the new battery (inside) is at 12.82V and the old one at 12.7V.
    It seems odd that both hold (almost) the same charge for the same amount of days.
     
  3. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    No, that really should be the norm. A fully charged battery should hold a charge for quite some time before it
    starts to discharge very much. Sounds like both your batteries are looking good.
     
  4. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    A drop of 3 volts in 3 hours is pretty astounding. It would have to be something major to cause that type of draw, ie: headlight,or tailight and heated grips ( the last 2 items draw about 5 amps each) staying on. And it seems that it dropped 4 volts over 9 days. Something not quite right.

    So what does the relay run or is connected to. From your description it sounds like the problem started with the new heated grips and the relay. The oxford grips have an auto power down feature ( at least the ones on my bike do ) so I just wire them directly with their own fuse. Pull the fuse on the grips and see what happens. I take it you are using the relay to turn the power to the grips on or off. Maybe the relay is wired wrong and doesn't shut the power to the grips off.

    Did you get rid of the immobilizer or did somebody else before you got the bike?
     
  5. CDA441

    CDA441 New Member

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    As I said, the relay came with the bike, It's connected to the tail light to power on, but the main line goes from the battery itself.
    The broken heated grips weren't even connected to the relay, so it did nothing.
    I got rid of the immobilizer, because I thought that was the biggest problem of the power drain.
    However, my voltmeter is also connected to that relay, and if the voltmeter is off, it means the relay is also off, which leads to the fact that the usb charger and heated grips are also off.
     
  6. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    Something really isn't adding up as you note that now both batteries are doing fine, one in & one out of the bike. So in other words you have no excessive draw going on.

    One thing to keep in mind if you are using something like heated grips in stop & go driving, around the city etc, the charging system on the bike is not going to keep up with that kind of additional draw and it will eventually draw the battery down. And as you know once the battery drops to a certain level the computer won't let it start. No FI.

    You can do the following if you are still having problems.

    Disconnect anything that is after market and not part of the bikes wiring harness. You need to go back to step one and start from scratch. I'm not familiar with the immobilizer wiring, as my 99 doesn't have that so can't tell you if it's removal could cause your issue. Once you have everything removed, see if the battery stays up.

    When you go back to adding stuff do it one thing at a time. Wire the grips directly to the battery as they have their own shut off. ( you can use alligator clips or something similar to hook to the battery temporarily as you are trying to eliminate a problem ). Then see if they cause any problems with killing your battery. Then add the voltmeter, but I would just get one of those LED setups that will tell you if the system is charging or not, and get rid of the gauge. I would replace the relay you have and try & find a better switched power than from the taillights. Something at the fuse box, I don't know if the VFR has an accessory fuse or not, but you could add one.

    See if you can find somebody local who is good with bike wiring. Often two heads are better than one. It is really hard to diagnose across an ocean. Good luck.
     
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  7. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    I have done some other reading on R/R issues on this site and others and one thing that comes up with overcharging R/R is that it will eventuallyt fry the ECU in the bike and likely cook the battery. ECU's are very expensive for these bikes, and in some cases hard to find.

    So if you are having any kind of charging issues it might not be a bad idea to replace the R/R. Just a thought.
     
  8. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    I honestly can't remember anyone on this forum, or VFRD mentioning that their ECU was fried by a
    malfunctioning R/R. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but I don't remember ever hearing anyone
    writing about it.
     
  9. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    I hadn't heard that either until today when I happened to do a search on Google for the topic of overcharging and it directed me back a topic on the VFRWorld site. Apparently for what it is worth the R/R stuck in an over charge state, blew bulbs, fried the ECU and toasted the battery. Happened to a couple of fellows.

    It seems that the R/R when it goes bad can get stuck in an overcharge or undercharge mode. I couldn't really tell by the contents of the topic if all cases where stock R/R or aftermarket stuff.

    It seems there is no fuse to protect the ECU.

    I'm just repeating what I read as I have no personnal experience with overcharging. I know on my own bike, has the upgraded Honda R/R and it will charge at 14 Volts or slightly below depending on RPM.
     
  10. bigbadbass

    bigbadbass New Member

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    why having an onboard voltmeter is of great value, constant evaluation of system output
     
  11. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    So true. Trick can be finding a good one.
     
  12. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Depending on what diode(s) in the RR goes wrong, a faulty RR can end up rapidly draining the battery or feeding 60+ volts AC direct into a system nominally designed for 12 volts DC. Sadly a lot of integrated circuit boards do not like wrong polarity current, let alone substantially over voltage AC. I would not at all be surprised if a motorcycle ECUs could sustain serious damage if exposed to that sort of abuse.

    Inherently even if your stock RR has not failed yet - there is a fair chance it will (unless you own a 7th or 8th Gen). Replacing an RR is costly enough on its own, add in a new stator and battery and potential roadside recovery fees and you can understand why some VFR owners have chosen to fit a Shindengen RR before the OEM RR lets you down, or at least chosen to install a volt-meter on their bikes. Whilst it won't stop an RR failure, at least it gives you a chance to spot when the charging system begins playing up, and head for some place safe before the remaining charge in the battery is drained and you end up stranded at the roadside. To be honest even the super cheap voltmeters available on eBay are better than none - just feed them from an ignition on circuit. Whilst they are not known for being super accurate they should allow you to quickly figure out what is normal for your bike and spot if the volts suddenly drop through the floor or shoot through the ceiling. Really does not matter if the number is slightly high or low, what you want is the volts number to remain fairly stable once the engine has warmed up.
     
  13. bigbadbass

    bigbadbass New Member

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    Shindengen Mosfet = preventative maintenance
    Fixing, improving associated wiring (and removing the damned mid connector) = icing on the cake
    Voltmeter= constant scrutiny, early warning
     
  14. Norse

    Norse New Member

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    I'm looking to get some of these basic things done to my "new" 2000 VFR, before the long summer trips.
    Got the voltmeter ready to be installed, and now looking for R/R. The original is working just fine (only 20k miles on it), but preventing failure is better than fixing.

    So far, this looks like the best bet:
    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Regulato...AA-For-SHINDENGEN-MOSFET-FH020AA/233144107119
    It doesn't look like there are many options and most I have found looks to be basically the same unit.

    Would this be a good choice?
     
  15. The Cardinal

    The Cardinal New Member

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    You should take a look at another great community on Facebook, honda vfr owners group. Very active and lots of advice on this. All there recommend this site for the r/r https://www.roadstercycle.com
    I bought a £40 job from wemoto in the UK but saw someone else on there had done the same and it popped in weeks. I think it's worth putting the quality unit in, and the best connectors you can find. £43 on eBay all in doesnt scream quality to me.

    By the by, this is well worth doing, I've literally had one set fire underneath the seat whilst riding

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/hondavfr800/
     
  16. Norse

    Norse New Member

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    The point is this is what I could find. The information here and other sites tend to go in several different directions and never seem to just point to a specific thing that is actually available.
    I generally don't throw $160+ at sketchy looking sites that I know nothing about (which will double after taxes and import charges).

    Is it really not possible to find ANYTHING in Europe?

    I don't use Fasebook, BTW. Don't plan on changing that even if my life depended on it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  17. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    The item you refer to "looks" like it would work. But at that price I fear it is almost certainly a fake made in China which could do more harm than good.

    Sadly the fake parts manufacturers quickly identify the parts people want and just wrap up a nasty RR inside a shell which looks very like the real thing. So you are taking a risk with the Bay item..

    As you are in Denmark i is worth mentioning that Yamaha motorbike dealerships often carry in stock, or at least will be able to order in, genuine Shindengen RRs as they were standard fit RRs on many of their larger capacity Yamaha motorbikes. You will however need to modify the connections to attach a Yamaha part to Honda cabling but it should work indeed I am sure someone on here posted up an illustrated thread showing how to do it. Sadly that thread was ages ago and I have not been able to find it using the forum search - although Google may find it.
     
  18. CDA441

    CDA441 New Member

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    To come back at the battery charging problems I had, well I don't have them anymore.
    I added a second ground from the battery to the frame, and no starting issues for long periods of time anymore.
    It's weird that a little piece of wire can make the bike more reliable.
     
  19. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    :Smow::Smow:
    Brilliant news - Thanks for taking the time to provide an update - something which is sadly missing from far too many threads . I hope the snow has finally cleared and you can enjoy some safe riding - up in the alps we still have plenty of :Smow::Smow::Smow::Smow::Smow:

    SkiMad
     
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  20. Cycleman1

    Cycleman1 New Member

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    Check the number on the RR that you have. The Honda upgraded one was SH 689DA. It had bigger heat sink and a plate that attached to the bottom betweeen the RR & the bikes frame. The biggest problem with any of the electrical systems on these VFR is that of poor connections and bad grounds. The grounding points on the engine can corrode over time as you are dealing with different metals. The VFR at least, my 99 has two grounds, one for the battery and one for the RR and other electrical grounds.

    The bane of all electrical systems on these bikes is the battery & the wiring. Weak battteries will take out the stator from excessive heat buildup and loss of a ground will take out the RR. The stator on these bikes, similar to modern cars alternators, are really just designed to maintain a battery, not charge up a weak or dead one. So keep a good fully charged battery in the bike and you will have far fewer problems.

    The RR on at least the 5th generation would have been better served to have been moved to the front of the bike in the airstream. I see they did that on later bikes. Likely a good mod for the 5th beneration.
     
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