having some wierd bike issues

Ok, Matt, glad you're making progress !

Float heights were VERY carefully SET to specs for '86 bike and CHECKED:

I filled the carbs with fuel to test for leaks, then used bubble levels to set carbs evenly side to side, forward and back then used an external clear line from the float bowl to actually observe the fuel levels in all carbs.

fuel level was the same in all carbs + or - 1/2mm

as you know, there's a small, spring-loaded plunger on the end of the needle where it contacts the float, and that plunger is a common failure item, usually sticking in the shortest position, fully collapsed, and that will raise fuel level in carb .

i KNOW the pilot circuits were clear when i tested the carbs.....the pilot jets especially were very clean and open, so i don't know, Matt, maybe that one time i filled the carbs for testing and then emptyed them maybe some gas dried up and blocked a passage??

Since you narrowed the problem to the front left cylinder, concentrate your trouble shooting there.

Electrical tests are a simple precaution in order to positively RULE OUT faults in that system, and once testing is done then carb problems are the next logical suspect.

 

My understanding is that plunger always compresses fully when the floats are full. If the needle/seat was cleaned well enough it should be working just fine, I would think.

I think that could be part of the problem. It seems to me that Matt needs to pull those carbs down and perform a thorough inspection on them. More than likely some parts will need to be replaced. Just my guess though!

 

you know i am sorry but electrical system is working fine when you have a igntion problem what happens most of the time theres no power on the top end i've delt with alot of bike that have had cobbled up electrical systems this bike has carbs issues,


my next question is what to do, squirrel man if i send the carbs back to you are you going to replace the hosed pilot jets? re-sync the carbs with the right springs? look man i am not trying to bash you or trying ruin your sale's or whatever i have my own business and i understand how important customer service is as i deal with them every day and i screw up to but i will fix the problem right then...i want this to be fixed i want all the new guys out there with Vf bikes to know how to fix there bikes if the problem should occour and even have you rebuild there carbs for them.... i think we could come to some kinda deal here but please i've checked this bike up and down and the electrical system is working at 100%.


business is business

 

I doubt it. If one was sticking open that much it would be affecting the idle quality when cold or warm.

So, if there was a puddle of water laying on the floor you would go check the circuit breaker? Or would you instead start looking for a leak in a pipe? The circuit breaker is easier to check.

 

I apologized if there was a problem and immediately offered to go through Matt's carbs again without delay,
but i asked for a few simple electrical tests first while the carbs were still on the bike in order to RULE OUT a bad sparkplug wire, fouled plug, failing coil, or any electrical fault that could maybecontribute to poor running.........just seemed routine.


Matt's carbs were so fouled up when i got them with rust flakes and dust and water from a half-rotted tank that fuel flow inside carbs was partially blocked, incapable of proper running in that condition.
But there could have been another unsolved problem with Matt's bike????? NO way, you say??

THIS will get sorted, and Matt's wings will FLY again!

 

I kind of thought you were going to say something like that.

The point being that all of the evidence was indicating a problem with the carbs. The problem was surging when hot and one cylinder fouling. I've never known either of those to be caused by something electrical.

Ruling out something is a great way to troubleshoot, however if you have no reason to believe that it's the problem then it sure sounds like wasted effort to me. Why not rule out the carbs first?

I honestly do not know what the problem is. I've had similar issues with a VF500 of mine and it was carbs, specifically the sync. The only difference is that mine wasn't loading up one cylinder. My guess is that Matt has more than one thing going on, but I still think the carbs are the first place to look.

 

So, by telling Matt to go search for an electrical problem, is that what he was doing?

I want Matt's bike to get back running correctly again.

 

i've made up my mind, i'll send the carbs back to squirrel to have him check it out but i will be swapping the carbs over to the 84-85 VF500 carbs but i want these 86 carbs to be in perfect work order, i will try to forget about the crap that was said behind closed doors ( in this case PM's) squirrel fair enough?

 

squirrel are you willing to take them back to work on them again?

 

I've been busy and I have come down with the flu, so I missed the last 4 or 5 days of exchange on this thread. First thing I want to point out is that I never got on line with any congratulations or pats on the back. You may think that was because the only thing I cared about was the gas mileage issue. But you would be wrong. The real reason I did not jump on the congratulation bandwagon was because I thought that doing mechanical repairs by email and US parcel post for a "weird bike issue" was fraught with peril in the first place.

I was not in at the beginning of this thread. But it appeared to me, coming in when I did that there was a lot of pressure to get on with rebuilding the carburetors in the beginning and not much interest placed on troubleshooting the electrical system or the ignition system. The need to do something, anything, seemed to push things forward and the main focus was "Carb problems". The answer was to shotgun the carbs with a complete rebuild. I have reread the thread from the beginning. And there is an automatic jump into fuel related problems from the beginning.

So, I think TinkerinWstuff has been cool headed about the situation while the central players have let emotion take over. I believe that Squirrelman did a superior job of rebuilding Matt’s carburetors. He has the most to lose if he doesn’t do a superior job in the way of loss of reputation. So I tend to trust that the carb’s were done right. The apparent automatic decision that the problem had to be fuel related seems very much like a big stone left unturned and left there to be tripped over. I also feel that there is a sort of unwritten contract in this sort of “help” by email that requires that the receiver of help must do 'due diligence'.

What do I mean by “due diligence”. I mean the person receiving the help has to give the person who provided the help the benefit of the doubt. If the provider asks for electrical checks than they need to be provided.

There may be another issue that is not being discussed in the open. That is the exchange of money. I know nothing about any sort of exchange, but my understanding would be that any exchange should take place after the fact of a repair. I want to point out that I did not send any congratulations prior to hearing that Matt was completely satisfied after a lot of riding and after checking his mileage. But the real issue is in the idea that the answers given here are supposed to be for free. So sending carburetors through the mail seems like it breaks the rules. While Squirrelman may have been wrong in soliciting for the work, I believe that Matt shares in the responsibility for agreeing to allow someone other than himself to do the work. The advice given on this site is to help those who ask for help to do the job themselves, and thereby learn from taking matters into their own hands.

The second issue here is in the assessment of the problem in the first place. Before I even chimed in about the balance springs issue on the third page of the thread at least 10 different people had gone for the fuel option without any nod to the electrical option. So some blame has to be spread around there as well.

I agree with TinkerinWstuff. Squirrelman deserves a chance to vindicate his carb rebuild job as not being the cause of Matts disappointment. Matt needs to give Squirrelman his due and take on partial responsibility. There is no one of us with the ability to see into the future and to thereby predict an absolutely correct answer to every question. Nor is is proper to expect the same. The rest of us need to back off or help Matt to satisfy the search for an electrical origin of the problem to Squirrelman’s satisfaction.

DKC

 

ok you guys are so hung up on plug wires fine i have some accel 8mm wire out in the shop i'll install it and we will see.. squirrel i havent heard a word from you is that a no your not going to work on them again? need to know soming man gotta get this shit going

 

DKC, i agree with some of what you wrote i am willing to give squirrel man another chance to fix this he's hurting himself right now, and again! i've check the electrical and its all fine everybody is hung up on the damn electrical system it check out good, now where back to the carbs

 

wow this is ugly. if I was you squirrel, I would send matt his money back and wash my hands of the whole mess. This is what happens to old, wore out, junk. it isn't worth the effort, your reputation, or being slandered in public. do yourself a favor, send him his money back, it isn't worth it.

 

Only Squirrelman can decide if your test is satisfactory.

Personally I would have gone to the ignition system first. But thatwas water under the bridge many weeks ago. You are going to have to satisfy Squirrelman that you have a sufficient electrical/ignition system to cause his warrantee to kick in. His argument is that he has rebuilt so many carburetors that he is certain that his work was done properly. So he is putting the blame on you and the fault(s) on the bike. These "weird issues" have a way of making clowns of the smartest and most circumspect mechanics. But the sign of a great mechanic is that they can't stand not to know why or how. They can't sleep at night for thinking and trying to understand what went wrong? That bit of information that they are lacking drives them nuts. But enough of my :rant:. What does Squirrelman want you to do to make sure that its not a fault in the bike? :sick:. This is not what I want you to do or any group out here in the 'World' with any particular agenda. If I have an agenda its to find out what the real cause of the "surge" is. Then I can look there if it ever happens to me or to someone whose bike I am helping to fix.

I commend you,Matt, for showing some flexibility. Now we want to hear the position of the other side of the argument and what if any sort of compromise might be forthcoming from Squirrel.