Goodbye 1st Gen...hello 2nd Gen

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by slowbird, Aug 1, 2010.

  1. captb

    captb New Member

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    Congrats on the VFR, looks nice. I restored mine a year ago and havn't had to touch anything on it since, just ride and put fuel in the tank and thank's to the EK ZZZ chain I havn't even had to do a chain adj.
     
  2. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Makes sense. Very much a bummer to see a 'young' VFR with this much cam wear.
     
  3. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    The bike isn't doing very well in any matter of speaking....mechanically, cosmetically...it has few things working right.

    If I can get rid of it before Winter and not have to pay for storage than good riddance. The money will go to a newer bike.

    If I can't sell the bike before snow falls then I'll store it and try and get things sorted for spring.

    As it is now it needs more $$ put into it...and I don't want to go into another repeat of what I went through with my first Gen.

    They make Shift kits for these bikes? What exactly does it do?

    It's not missing shifts....it's like a multiple click/crunchy noise/feel when shifting...between 1st/2nd & 5th/6th?
    As it is now it'll go: 1st..clickclickclicklclickclick..2nd (all in 1 upward stroke). Same when going from 5th to 6th. Sometimes when I'm gearing down to 5th it'll crunch or grind and/or just find a false neutral.

    My old 1st gen felt much better....and did no such things.

    Thanks....I'll let you know. As it is now I don't know if all the problems this bike is having is worth fixing.

    It'd like to know too. The only reason I bought this bike was because of the low mileage...I figured: 'hey...the rest I can fix bit by bit but atleats I know the Engine will last forever.' :rolleyes: Yeeea right.

    Maybe an improper valve adjustment, like Toes says....but how long do you ride on an improperly adjusted valve to cause that?! Wouldn't you hear it?

    Maybe Squirrel can shed more light on what the damage looked like.

    Nice....glad to hear it all worked out for you. :tongue:
     
  4. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    was at a sales meeting this weekend and there was a motivational speaker hired to speak.

    He had two big phrases;
    1st Flush it and move on
    2nd Don't quit before the blessing

    i.e. flush the negativity and bitching along with not quitting before you realize the prize.

    you knew it had issues and were willing to work through them. Now you found one little issue you didn't know about and you're going to throw in the towel?

    someone may have had the cam too tight so oil could not get in between the cam and lifter - in this case, you wouldn't hear it but you would possibly burn a valve. It would be recommended to take a bore scope and inspect the valve seat surface.

    shift kit: not sure if they have one for 2nd gen. http://www.factorypro.com/prod_pages/prodh20.html
     
  5. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    LOL....I like how you say it's just one little issue and then you go on to say a burnt valve could've been possible and I should inspect the valve seat surface. :tongue:


    I appreciate the motivational "push" you are giving me tinker, but it's not your time or money being thrown into this. I have already spent an embarrassing amount of time and money trying to get the bike running right and I am NOT replacing a cam. If I had wanted to do that kind of work I would have kept my 1st gen. (and cam wear is not a little problem)

    I specifically brought the bike to Squirrelman before winter so I'd know if the bike would be worth restoring. He has reported to me the Cam Wear issue and ontop of all the other problems I am having with this bike I have decided that it has just ever so slightly crossed into the "too much trouble/money" category.

    If I sell it I sell it....If I don't I don't.
     
  6. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    but the 1st gen has not only cam issues, but valve spring issues and valve stem issues. Not only that, it's known to have issues so even after replacing them, it's only a matter of time.

    my 3rd gen I bought with a bad rod bearing. They aren't known for having bearing problems, it's just a thing that happens to mechanical items some times. Replacing a cam is 10 more minutes time on top of the valve adjustment. inspecting the valve seat is a precautionary measure and can be done thru a spark plug hole with the right tool.

    This is the crap you deal with when you buy used. It's hard to tell from that photo what condition the lobe and rocker are really in, but from what I see, I'd just ride that thing and not worry about it. Keep your eye on craigslist for the next two years and you'll find a parts motor for $250
     
  7. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    I agree with you 100%...and I would do exactly as you say and just ride the thing and keep an eye out for a used parts motor. (The guy who originally fucked my bike up is selling one for $350)

    But I can't just ride the bike yet cause it still runs rich, misses and leaks fuel!

    The bike is evil and it has a demonic lust to make me spend money on it to get it running just so it can puke out the cam down the road.
     
  8. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    IMG_1081.jpg IMG_1113.JPG IMG_1059.jpg Hey, don't bash THAT bike, please !!

    I spent lots of time working on our dear little #2043, and she's among the top 15% in quality of all the many '86 RWBs i've seen.

    It's worth $1000 more than Matt's spent on her so far.

    I had absolutely no problem shifting Matt's bike, and it never jumped out of gear.

    The only problem now is that all the float needles need replacing as they may be original to the bike at 27,000 miles. More money, but it should solve all Matt's problems. Then he'll have only the R/R left to worry about.

    Cam wear was a surprize and didn't show up well on the photos i tried. All parts wear in service, of course, and i don't have the engineering or in-depth mechanical experience to determine the difference between normal or excessive wear. I saw some scuffing, chatter marks, one or two small pits near the lobes and especially on the opening side of the cam.

    When exhaust valves were adjusted to just less than .008", the valves may have had a bit more than normal clatter.

    Cam wear could have lots to do with poor maintenance, bad oil, owner abuse like over-revving when cold, so some bikes might have no visible wear at the same mileage. I don't think the cam wear on Slowbird's bike would in any way limit the life of the motor.......at least up to 100K miles.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2010
  10. Michael E

    Michael E New Member

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    Huh? Yes, the plot thickens...

    OK - time to bail on the old bikes. Either you've got the character to deal with everything that goes along with them or you don't. Based on your threads for the 500 and now this bike I would say that you will be much happier on a much newer bike. When you get older and circumstances are different, you could always get another AS A SECOND BIKE. Pick up a used bike that is only a few years old for $5-6k, that's only $90-120 a month over 5 years, depending on interest. You will be a MUCH happier man!! Trust me, I know, lol.
     
  11. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    IMG_1057.jpg IMG_1059.jpg IMG_1060.jpg


    Cam photos showing some marks....pointing to pit.
     
  12. MiddleTBabb

    MiddleTBabb New Member

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    Dude! I hope that it's going well. My current 86 700 project wouldn't be much without the help of all these folks who have posted here.

    I bet that bike's alright...

    But don't waste your time if you feel different!

    here's to 2nd gen VFRs

    :cheersaf:
     
  13. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Is this an example of being penny wise and pound foolish? Not to be disrespectful but why were the floats not replaced during the rebuild? This is a simple thing to do and well worth the insurance, IMO.
     
  14. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I've never replaced a needle and seat on any carb rebuild I've done, ever. Still batting 1000 and no problems - yet.
     
  15. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Yes, there's a very legitimate case here for over-saving and gambling on parts possibly beyond their span of useful service.

    Matt let me know that he wanted to save as much $$ as possible when he brought his bike here, so float needles were not replaced simply as a matter of routine, but instead, the bike was subject to a close inspection followed up by road testing of up to 125 miles, AND THE BIKE RAN PERFECTLY !! And all the plugs looked right. So i had evidence that things were good enough. And the bike ran great for awhile, no problems then.



    So, a few hundred miles (kms of course cuz it's a Canadian bike) later the bike misbehaves and reveals the now conclusive evidence that float needles needed replacement from step #1.

    Sorry, Matt, those parts from Honda will run you about $200 but will finally fix your bike, and i know you can deal with the installation yourself and have whatever assistance you might need or send the carbs here and i'll do all the work....under warranty !

    The cost of routine basic parts replacement ( needles, seats, floats, gaskets) is high, at least $ 550 if you use Honda original parts, so naturally the reuse of parts that seem good is general practice rather than throwing a whole new setup into every carb every time.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2010
  16. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    I WISH!

    The insurance on this 25 year old bike is expensive enough.....a newer bike with payments and there fore full coverage would be completely unaffordable. Again....I don't mind working on bikes. But one of the reasons I'm drawn to the VFR's are the lack of serious maintenance needed, the Gear Driven Cams and stout Engines and Valve-Trains. So far this bike is having problems everywhere. Brakes, Fairing stay, Carbs, Cam, Shifting....and lately it's been shaking my teeth out over rough roads and I have to find time to figure out why.


    Thanks.....and yes....the people on this forum are amazing. :smile:

    I haven't heard this saying before :confused:

    Squirrel and I have talked about this and it seems that trying to save $$ has ended up biting us in the ass.

    I agree though....if I had the choice I would have given the go ahead to replace the needles. It's a bit too late now. The temperatures are dropping now and I have no place to wrench on the bike. By the time I get off work there's no light left and no heat left.


    Another $200 eh? Is that for all 4 needles? I still need to replace the float bowl gaskets too.
     
  17. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Fair enough, it does sound like you made an informed decision on the float needles and seats. Perhaps you can live with these for now and budget in a new set for the next riding season.

    You've had your share of gremlins Slow but keep the faith.

    It doesn't sound like your bike is too far off and you have a great support network.

    Lots to learn and to look forward to learning when you are the owner of a vintage bike.
     
  18. slowbird

    slowbird Member

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    A needle/seat set for the bike is $50/carb from Honda.

    Gasket set is $50/carb from Honda also.

    If I only replace the one needle and the 2 float bowl gaskets I'm looking at around $150. :-(
     
  19. captb

    captb New Member

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    Try BC you should get gaskets and needle and seats for (4) carbs for under $50
    Billy Carr
    20706 State Highway 19
    Canton, TX 75103

    903-567-1543
     
  20. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    This sounds like a pretty good deal!

    A quick check on Service Honda's website shows:

    16011-MM4-004 | VALVE SET, FLOAT | 4 REQ | $34.20 ea.
    16010-ML7-305 | GASKET SET | 4 REQ | $30.88 ea.
     
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