Electrical problems

No worries - we all have to learn sometime - especially if you own a VFR. Sadly electrical gremlins are the achilles heel of VFRs.

Sorry I forgot the earlier result in post 12. It shows the volts are too low and probably means the stator is in trouble. If the numbers were too high then it would mean the RR was not working to keep the volts within range - but the RR can't manufacture volts - it can only dump excess. So the low reading points strongly towards the stator (assuming you don't have melted connector causing a wiring short).

For the stator test don't worry which probe goes where - just make sure that both probes are actually touching a metal part of the pin inside the connector. If the probes are too thick you can always cheat by poking a short bit of wire into each connector and then touching the probes to the wire.

(Polarity will matter if we need to do diode checks on the RR. But lets see what you get from the stator.)

Nearly there...




SkiMad

 

You've been more helpful than I could've asked for Ski, I'll crack on wednesday

 

A to b 0.6 ohms
A to c 0.6
B to c 0.6

Each pin to ground showed no reading

 

Phew.. That rather suggests the stator is OK and points to the RR as the cause of your charging problems. (A stator is a lot more expensive than a RR to replace!).

Its up to you whether or not your want to do a bit more testing to fully eliminate the stator as a possible cause by carrying out the AC voltage tests on the stator - as previously described see in Post #15 above, or simply go out and source a replacement RR.

You could just buy/fit a replacement Honda RR, as that should be a plug and go solution. However the OEM RRs fitted to earlier 800's were not brilliant, so you may want to consider spending a bit more and fitting a MOSFET type RR, as they run a lot cooler and provide a much more consistent spike free charge to the battery. However they are more expensive and would not be a plug and play install as they will require some modifications to hook it up to the existing loom. You can find out more about MOSFET RRs here.. http://roadstercycle.com/ Wow. Its a while since I last looked at their site but it looks like they now offer some ready to go kits and if you email them a photo showing the current RR and its connections, they may be able to manufacture a fully ready to install unit which you can simply bolt into the place of the existing RR.

Hope that helps.




SkiMad

 

Yeah I will do the extra tests just to be sure but in the mean time I'll also contact them about the plug and play connection for vfr rr

 

let us know what they say. Just bought my vfr, already have an issue, so I am thinking of upgrading the entire system and be done with it, got a decent enough deal on the bike if I have to put a few dollars in it I'm still not hurt to bad.

 

Will do but I've also heard good things about the vfrness. Is this the same sort of thing or what?

 

I dont think it is, the vfrness doesnt come with a r/r, I think it is what connects the batter to the r/r. Probably still needed I think, but pretty new to this bike and trying to figure out which way I want to go, as there is nothing worse than breaking down 500 miles from home.

 

So I eventually replaced the RR for an electrex world one and it's not made much if any difference (though i havent put a multi-meter to it yet)

The connector with the OEM RR did have quite a few hot spots so I may consider just soldering the 3 phase wires together? Am I right in thinking that's what's normally done?

 

Many solder the wires together, I chose to do it this way so I can easily take it apart and test and put it back together again.
I crimped then soldered the ring connectors on the wires, ox-guard on rings and blue loctite on screws

 

That looks like a great idea. (Mine are just soldered)

 

Ok everybody says charging system. But the 6th gen doesnt charge the battery at idle and makes max voltage at 5k rpm but max amps at around 4k rpm. So anywhere near these rpms will give you a charge of 13.2 to 14.6 volts with an ideal voltage range of 13.8 to 14.2 volts. Your lights dim due to not having a good connection some where. Look at the 8 frame to negitive connections and the 3 positive to regulator rectifier module. A small red wire (as on my 07 model) is the batt volt sense wire. Its a size 18 and should be a 14 like the rest of the bike. Common issue is corrosion on the terminals in the connectors. Start by checking, cleaning and filling with di-electric grease. Always do your checks at engine speeds of 4000 rpm min.

 

Yeah Imeant soldering andd have edited accordingly Nice set up you've got there though

I'll take a look at the earths sometime next week (booked up with wedding stuff at the mo) But surely having the engine on it should be producing more volts at the batt than when it's off?

 

While you are at it check and clean batt contacts and if the batt is older than 3yrs than consider replacement. Vfr 6th gens do over charge the batt a bit

 

battery seems to charge and hold charge fine but I will check it.

Where are the 8 earth connections? I know about the one above the left radiator

And I assume by the 3 positive to RR connections, that you mean the 3 yellow wires?

 

Any time there are charging problems, be sure to inspect the 4-wire plug atop the starter relay for melted or semi-burned wires as trouble there can cause low (or no) charging voltage to battery.

 

The three yellows are the ac input from the stator. Your bike makes 3-phase ac at about 60vac. This works out to about 26vdc when recrified and no load. Add a regulator and about 20amps of load and the voltage drops to about 15vdc. Which then wastes more voltage to get down to the nice 14.2vdc we like. This waste is heat and can be actively seen as a very quick short to frame. Mosfet systems use the same diodes, but instead of switching to frame they use the source to drain resistance and just open the gate a very little. Way better for control but can make way more heat.

the two to three positives you are looking for go from the r/r unit to the battery. If you have two plugs with three wires each or a single plug with 6 wires then you have a wire that goes to the key switch and two to the battery. If not then just ignore the wire to the keyswitch.

A simple way to figure out if the wire goes to the battery is to turn the bike on but dont start it and measure for voltage from a good clean frame or clip to the batt negative and test pins one at a time. If you have a blown fuse then replace it.

Note: you can not measure this due to not being able to open the r/r unit to get to the correct test points. You can measure the ac from the stator when running and see for yourself. Keep in mind that the voltage will be lower than 60vac if the r/r is plugged in.

The grounds (frame returns) are all over your bike. There is one beside every major unit. So the stater is one, beside the battery, ecu, r/r, guage cluster, headlights, abs if you have it, tail lights. I even have one beside my rad fan, this is shared by the abs unit which uses 2 returns due to load (75amps! When triggered, poor battery has nothing left in it when the abs unit goes off.)

Squirrel points out correctly that there are some always live circuits. The main one is the starter relay system. If that connector or relay is burnt then it will take every available amount of power. The starter isnt turning or making noise but it would be drawing power, enough to kill a battery and cause lights to dim.
On that note, check all connectors strip all plastics off and start at one end and work to that spot in a circle.

 

As a further & (probably) related development of this, the bike is now having trouble starting when cold and feels flat above 9k and before vtec. Help?

 

Hmm

I know you recently replaced you Regulator Rectifier with a new unit from Electrex - but since then I am not sure if you checked the bike was charging OK using a multimeter - or simply assumed the new unit will solve the problem.

Sadly I have seen a few posts over the years on here which reported their brand new Electrex RR was pretty unsatisfactory or indeed DOA.

So before we start chasing all manner of other possible problems can you get that multimeter out and tell us what the battery terminal volts are with the bike switched off, with the bike running at normal idle, and at 5,000rpm? Then repeat the measurements straight after taking the bike for a good 30+minute ride. Please post up the numbers as basic charging system electrical problems can give rise to all manner of faults - including the poor starting/running issues you report.

If the charging system results are definitely OK, then next logical thing to check is whether or not the onboard computer system has any stored MIL codes. The following video shows how to check for MIL codes, and what they mean - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpHK7gMx2WY

Again let us know what you find.




SkiMad

 

That is sounding like low electrical power. At around 9000rpm you have a high load on the electrical system. Your not getting enough power.
Its really time to find the issue or sad to say park it before it gets damaged.