Electrical geniuses please speak now!

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Terry Smith, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. Grumpy old man

    Grumpy old man New Member

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    I hear you loud and clear on that one I love removing and setting up a set of carbs and getting it right so much satisfaction to be had when it just runs as it should not all smothered with lean emission settings

    BUT Plugging the laptop into the Power commander and uploading a new map or tweaking the current one whilst the bike is still strapped to the dyno with the tank bolted down PRICELESS

    Seriously considering a Rapid bike module for my next bike when we get back to NZ later this year
     
  2. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Are you getting deported, James?

     
  3. Grumpy old man

    Grumpy old man New Member

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    No we have Just had enough of Australia and missing some real riding roads with corners with no bloody suicidal kangaroo's

    Sadly I have just put my VFR up for sale here as shipping is just not a good option financially I can sell here and just buy one off tard me with little difference in money with comparable milage etc Saving me just over $2200 Aus $$ by not shipping the VFR

    Or take the opportunity to try a big naked bike like a CB1300 or XJR1300 ZXR, Fazer etc etc
     
  4. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Yeah, there's no shortage of VFR's for sale here, and it looks like the 6th gen prices are dropping quite fast. I was looking around in 2014 and $10k seemed to be a going rate, but you get some good looking machines for $6k or so now. 5th gen's seem to be sitting in a $4-6 band depending on mileage. I would be quite partial to a CB1300S especially the gold-wheel version with the red frame.

    I took my ST out for a decent country run (in the dark, no roos) tonight and its just the same and not getting any better. If I was to describe it, it feels like the main jets must be blocked as just when you feel like the bike should get cracking with a decent handful of throttle, it starts to choke and buck. Its Ok on a steady small throttle but if I put it under load it surges and bogs. I tried a little run without the fuel filler cap and it's no different. The problem has been persistent even after each different attempt at carb cleaning, which makes me wonder if it is something external to the carbs, like coils or the ignition unit.

    I'll stick my GoPro on tomorrow and share the fun.

    When I got home I looked at the plugs again, and they all look great to me. The back right is a little darker than the others. I also threw in a new fuel filter although the old one seemed to flow well.

    Will hopefully get the bike fully road legal tomorrow; $200 for the inspection (vs about $50 for a regular 6 month inspection) and I have to get a brake inspection certificate from a motorcycle repairer, and also supply a witnessed stautory declaration that I own the bike, as it no longer exists in official records and so there's no ownership transfer possible.

    While gathering chassis number data I made my bike age suddenly, turns out it is actually a 1990 model, not 1992. Better ask for a further discount from the seller! Still scrubs up OK for 26 years old.

    [​IMG]
     

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    Last edited: Apr 28, 2016
  5. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    It looks immaculate for its age. I might start by inspecting the plug wires / connectors back to the coils.
     
  6. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Here's a little clip I made this morning. It's not bad through 1st gear, but once I get into the higher gears and bigger throttle opening the bogging down starts.

    [video=youtube;pv_eR3HmEIE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv_eR3HmEIE[/video]

    I have checked the ICM voltage, and the coil and plug impedance and they check out OK. THe ICM voltage did seem a bit lower than I expected, and I found a nice colour wiring diagram last night that has helped me understand the torturous path that current takes to reach the ICM and coils, so I will work my way along the wires over the weekend.
     
  7. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    [video=youtube;oMN5OTobtRc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMN5OTobtRc[/video]

    Another little clip.
     
  8. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    I spoke with my wife's uncle who has an ST1100 - he's also a very good motorcycle mechanic (he's got Norton's, Triumph's, and BMW's as well).

    He said that he took a 1992 apart last year. The CV carb has a plunger which works on vacuum depending on air density. The rubber gets old and leaks, causing the plunger and jet needle to drag causing one carb to operate different than the others. He suggests replacing those rubber diaphragms.

    Basically, he's suggesting what I originally had thought as well ... I would check the carb that services that one cylinder where the plug is darker than the others.

    675.jpg
     
  9. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion Jeff.

    I have had the carbs in pieces 3 times, and have confirmed that all of the rubber diaphragms are in great shape and sealing nicely. They operate by the intake vacuum under the carb slide drawing on the top side of the diaphragm, which pulls the slide upwards against the spring tension and opens the carb slide. There is an air vent that keeps atmospheric pressure on the other side of the diaphragm, and I have tested them by blowing into this vent, which gives the same pressure differential effect as the intake vacuum, and causes the slides to rise as they do when the bike is running. These are all working really well.

    I have resigned myself to another tear down this weekend. There is an air passage from alongside the intake trumpet which I think services the chamber around the emulsion tube/mainjet, and I wonder whether this is not flowing air like it should, so the air-fuel emulsion is not happening as it should, so the fuel entering the intake is not being atomised properly from the main jet.

    I'm also wondering if I should bike the bullet and buy some new carb isolators just in case the ones I have are simply leaking badly. However I can't imagine the vacuum being so even during a synch as it is, if that were the case. Happy times.

    My bike is now fully street legal, $200 for the inspection and then $355 to cover initial certification and 6 months registration. Oh how the government loves to take money from us hard-working citizens.
     
  10. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Well, I'm still leaning towards a carburation issue on this.

    They make look good, but it doesn't always mean they're sealing. I'm very suspect of those sliders and needle jet from where I'm sitting ... then again, where I'm sitting is nowhere near that beautiful bike. :)
     
  11. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Me too, sadly.

    I don't think the diaphragms and slides are the culprit but I will take another close look. I have ordered some new isolators in any case, but they'll be 2-3 weeks away.
     
  12. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    SUCCESS!

    Cleaned the carbs for the 4th time (thanks Tinker, maybe that was the good luck charm) and also had a look at the electrical supply for the ignition, which goes via the bank angle sensor to the bar switches and back to the ignition. There is a big red plug just behind the steering head and the terminals in here were corroded. Strikes me as a bad idea to have a plug sitting vertical so it can fill with water, but what do I know. So I cleaned and sprayed some contact cleaner and reassembled. Also checked the bank angle relay and that was perfectly clean (up under the instruments).

    Anyway, first test ride, and I finally have midrange! Very excited, and now off for a decent spin.

    Thanks to all for their suggestions.

    Terry
     
  13. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Awesome!!!! Super stoked you've got it running well!

    Put di-electric grease in those connectors. It will coat the contact points and prevent them from oxidizing/corroding.
     
  14. Grumpy old man

    Grumpy old man New Member

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    Great news Terry perseverance paid dividends

    Now get out and enjoy your new toy and keep an eye on those tyres if they have been sitting for a while
     
  15. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Thanks guys.

    I had a very productive day yesterday, although my wife may disagree. Whilst I had all the bodywork off (and there is a shipload of it) I took some time to pull the timing cover off the belt, and also the cam covers. VFR owners can only dream how easy this all was. Anyway I was able to confirm the crank/cam timing was dead on, and also went over the valve clearances, a really easy task on an ST. Does all this look familiar to a VFR owner or what?


    [​IMG]

    I also had a crack at fixing the cooling system up, I had a feeling the thermostat was toast, and there were a couple of coolant leaks. Found this:

    [​IMG]

    Oh yes, that is a very badly corroded part. Explained the slow heat up and warm running. I also blew many years worth of crud out of the radiator fins and repainted parts. A Honda car thermostat from the local autoparts place was very cheap and fitted like a charm. Found a new o-ring and cleaned up all the scale from the leaky hose ends and reassembled with silicone grease. Aahhh, that's better. Proper temps and a quick warm up ,and no more leaks.

    So once I got the bike back together today, it was time for a proper ride. 260km later the fuel gauge has only got to 2/3, this thing has a big tank! Very comfy to ride, plush and a bit slushy with soft springs and light damping. Managed to clout the centrestand a couple of times, very neutral steering and quite secure, just not a heap of clearance. Brakes are bit feeble after the 4-pot sets on the VFR and VTR and I might have to invest in some EBC HH pads.

    The power is very different to my other bikes, there's plenty in there but a heavy crank takes some energy to spin up so it feels slow, but once at speed this thing just rolls serenely along. I saw 190km/hr on a "private test track" which seems plenty fast, and most of my ride was in the 100-130 range.

    Happy days!

    [​IMG]
     

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  16. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Haha. That's awesome ... I know my wife's uncle loves his ST1100, he's got several bikes, but this is the one he takes out regularly if he's going any kind of distance. He preferred it over his his BMW touring bike (and sold that unit).
     
  17. Grumpy old man

    Grumpy old man New Member

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    I see you have this Luxo Barge for sale on Trade me Terry

    Good luck with the sale would be a good bike for touring the countryside
     
  18. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Haha well spotted James, but I've been having second thoughts so withdrew it from sale tonight. Will hang on to it for a bit longer and see if we bond.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Grumpy old man

    Grumpy old man New Member

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    I have been scouring "Trade me" daily sometimes several times a Day looking for my next bike

    It has been nearly 2 weeks since I sold the 6th gen and the withdrawals have well and truly set in considering I usually ride every day

    I have been applying for jobs in NZ already so I need to be able to hit the ground running and be able to buy a bike quickly in case I am successful in my applications

    The market seems to be all over the place with comparable models being varied in pricing considerably

    I may end up buying something unseen and get it delivered to my sons house in Remuera ,Hopefully it doesn't bite me on the ass
     
  20. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    If you want me to look at something let me know James.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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