Do less?

Discussion in 'Racing & Track Days' started by misti, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    First please do not compare your non dynamic hobbies to the very dynamic environment that you are in while riding a motorcycle. The same goes for any dynamically learned skill, driving, sailing, CPR, etc. Yes you can read about it, discuss it and even argue about it but when push come to shove do you want you pilot trying to land that 777 your in after only reading about how to do it? Mr. Keith Code may have participated in forum discussions and explained the text book method on some maneuvers but even he will tell you that there is no substitution for in person live feedback and supervision.

    I may be silly for thinking that there is a limitaition on what can be taught by the net and a forum, but you, sir, have surpassed silly by thinking that anyone can teach a dynamic process just by typing about it. If we were to compare hobbies such as electronics, or computer programming then yes you can teach over a forum. But I would never teach power engineering ( boiler operator) over a forum. It requires book work and hands on instruction. Same with motorcycle training, flight training and yes the training needed to change oil in a car.
    My point, the one that was missed, was very simple. Dont substitute forum based training for hands on training, you may know what was said but you will never know what is right.

    Now I want you to think, dont type, just think. What are the limitations of the internet as a teaching tool. Do this and have a valid and well presented rational for your answer. The write it down, wait a week and write another response to yourself. Then after writing your second response read your first and then wait a week and write a third. The re read both your first and second responses.
     
  2. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    I'll check with the "extinguished" one.. We may be dealing with issues here that are beyond our grasp, namely Can-ams and POVs from the ladies..
     
  3. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Gator has a few good points concerning "book learning" in general about riding. What those hobbies include, we may never know. What is missing and can never be learnt from any source other than doing it is the pucker factor.

    We can talk muscle memory and physiological input, ergonomics, age, environmental factors till the cattle head for the barn but until ya have a few tight ass moments, its never real.
     
  4. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    I agree, and the first time you grab the throttle and twist everything you though you knew about riding goes out the window.
    If you want muscle memory then you have to actually do it. There is no other way to achieve this. There is no substitution for experience.
     
  5. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    This same experiential knowledge can be applied to many endeavors. :)
     
  6. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    I was reading a post on Yahoo concerning what foreign visitors think of the US and some of the advise they give to fellow travelers. Public urination was one of those puzzling aspects of American life and the fact that you can't do it on the road without facing fines. See:

    Don’t drink the water: Visitors’ travel tips for coming to America

    By the way. I agree with almost all the recommendation. I don't drink the water when I travel.
     
  7. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    Can you quote the authority for that? That is totally new to me. Folk lore at its best. If a man's gotta pee, a man's gotta pee. Anywhere in Canada that I am aware of, so long as the person is discrete, it is not an issue. That, Zen, was the position taken by the BC Supreme Court. You want the case number, look it up. It is out there somewhere.
     
  8. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    Dont need the case number, ive been harassed for taking a piss on the side of the road before. The officer in question threatened an obstruction of traffic fine, but it went nowhere due to lack of proof.

    As for the authority, I suggest the hi-ways and traffic act. Its long winded but its in there. Along with headlight max height, proper aim and max horn volume. I had to go through it to prove that a rivited vehicle frame can be welded and certified. Happy reading. (For the record, im not going to argue this since we both agree that we can piss on the side of the road)
     
  9. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    I guess it is universal. No matter where you live, you can get in trouble for doing things that are really legal but don't meet the approval of the local law enforcement agent. The funniest one I heard about was a fellow, in Oklahoma, back in the 80s that used to haul his BMW road race bike on a trailer behind his BMW road bike. He was pulled over by an over zealous cop. When the officer could not produce the intended infraction from the book he told the rider that they were going to "sit there until he found it" so sure, was he, that there had to be something wrong with a motorcycle hauling a motorcycle. It finally took a call to a supervisor to get him on his way, without a citation.
     
  10. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    I actually dont mind the pull over and talk, what I mind is the attitude of im in the wrong and no way around it. Even when I can prove im in the right, I still dont get an apology for it. If im doing something that doesnt look right, pull me over, have a talk, point out the concern and see if we can fix it. But too many are just ready to just be arrogant (I have a times too so its not just cops).

    During what we call heck week here (regina being sooo close we get a half dozen trainees and their instructors come down and do an area blitz) I try not to ride much. I have been pulled over 3 times going 6 blocks just to let the cop see that I do have my papers and valid license. Though I dont mind it when im stopped and the cop is interested in the bike. Doesnt happen much anymore but does still happen. :)
     
  11. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Not missed at all. Hands on is absolutely need for such learning, but reading and discussions help teach be it net, book or in person. I would even say some video games can teach a bit of some things. Pucker factor? Yeah some big ones on first experiences on bikes. But i think the biggest I ever had was when I was 9 and learning to fly with my uncle in a 150. First stall I did was bigger than the first tank slapper, low side, high side all combined. Something about falling out of the sky and having to push and tilt the plane over as you fall..... pucker factor high, no book or discussion will help.
     
  12. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    nothing like the first time your instructor reaches out and floods the engine to a stall in a high angle climb. when your done fixing the issue you feel like your hair is completely white while the seat got a new shade of brown. talk is great, knowing what to expect is nice so you don't screw up too badly, but there is nothing to prepare you for the real thing like actually doing it.
     
  13. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    That is for sure Zen. The next 3 or 4 stalls were not as bad as the first but the damn stall alarm ( just a screaming air whistle) would start slow at first and build in volume as you got closer to stall, that and the whole plane starting to stutter and shake, you knew the bottom was going to fall out and the anticipation took a lot to get use to. I was very young too and I'm sure that did not help. These were just power down stalls, could not imaging a high angle climb forced stall.
     
  14. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    get your pilots lic on todays program and anything over a 172 requires a high angle forced stall. by the way the joke about peanut butter not changing flavor is so wrong.
     
  15. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    So he had no proof at all?

    Sounds like you didn't give an inch. Way to stand your...ground. :potstir:
     
  16. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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  17. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    http://www.bing.com/search?q=private pilot license age restrictions&FORM=BB07BG&PC=BB07&QS=n
     
  18. misti

    misti New Member

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    Just to clarify something, I don't teach for ICBC or have a course in Vancouver, BC. I've been a riding coach with Keith Code and the California Superbike School for almost 11 years now. I travel to the USA mostly to coach their riding schools though I do some private coaching locally in Vancouver and Western Canada as part of CSS. I've also taught in Spain with the British arm of the school and could staff any of the CSS courses world wide. Before I had kids I worked full time with the school travelling to their 80+ dates at different tracks in the USA.

    I agree that internet discussions and reading books or articles about riding is no substitute for hands on learning. I think everyone would love the opportunity to go to a riding school and practice their technique with a certified coach looking over them. However, for many it is not an option so the next best thing is to learn what they can about riding skills from various other sources. Books, articles, forum discussions, advice from friends, videos etc are all potential sources of learning about riding tech provided that you can then get out on your bike and actually practice what you have learned.

    Here is a real world example. I once read an article about tank slappers where the author stated that you should pump your brakes after experiencing a tank slapper because occasionally tank slappers can force the front brake pads and brake pistons away from the rotors, causing the brakes to go soft or fade completely. One day I was chasing a very fast student when I went over a large bump on the track and the bike went into a crazy tank slapper, I'd never experienced one before. When it finally settled I remembered that little piece of advice I'd read, grabbed my brakes and sure enough there was nothing. A quick pump of the brakes and thankfully got pressure back and was able to slow for the upcoming corner. Had I not read that little tidbit in the article I never would have known that I needed to pump the brakes, I would have panicked when I pulled the lever and felt nothing, and I may not have made it through the corner.


    Agree that attending schools is better than reading about it in books but as stated above, not everyone can get to a school as often as they would like so learning about riding tech other ways is the next best thing.

    And I just wanted to clarify one last thing, you say that most "Schools" are centred on going fast, The California Superbike School has nothing to do with going fast. Students can ride at whatever pace they feel comfortable with and increasing your overall speed is never the main goal of any of the techniques taught, it is all about safety and being a better more confident rider overall. Increased riding speed tends to be a bi-product of increased skill and let's face it, most riders enjoy going fast :)
     
  19. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    I still don't have my license. lol I learned early and flew every chance I got but did not actually train for my license until I was married with 1 kid. A friend/client ran a flight school out of Lantana and was letting me fly his planes for gas money. Then my wife got pregnant again and the log book sits in a drawer to this day. I have foo many hobbies anyway and flying would be the most expensive. I have been lucky to fly some very nice aircraft and one day when I'm older I might give it a go again.
     
  20. Big_Jim59

    Big_Jim59 Member

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    I appreciate misti's posts and as she said, if even one piece of information causes you to not miss that corner, then it is all worthwhile. You are correct. Not everyone can do the riding school thing. I am like Gator in that I have way too many hobbies and my finances are a leaky bucket of all the stuff I am interested and obligated to do. Fortunately, back in the 90s, I was invited, by a friend, to Reg Pridmore's CLASS motorcycle school. I learned more that day than I had in all my years of riding. It was one of the best experience of my life. I was able to put many of the things I had learned from books to a practical test on the track. It still does not keep me from reading and trying to understand what Keith Code and others have written. It's just easier and becomes clearer much faster after a lap or two under the eyes of a watchful instructor.

    As an aside, one of the riders at the school showed up on a Honda Pacific Coast. He was a new rider and earned the title of most improved for that days instruction. It's not all about race replicas and lap times.
     
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