Do less?

Discussion in 'Racing & Track Days' started by misti, Jan 21, 2014.

  1. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    From the pix and text on the site that is what is being taught. Also it looks like she at one time taught for the official school. The line of questioning is what is a little strange and the age of her students hardly reflects the "seniority" of many of the old farts here who do not race in the first place. Again if she is soliciting customers for her school or classes. WTF is wrong with just saying so? instead of asking really dumb questions that have been asked about a million times before and been sort of answered a million and half times by a passle of old farts who used to be whatever it was they used to be..

    So, is that Code axiom good for both left and right turns? Never did chew. Used to smoke. ;)
     
  2. Skifreak

    Skifreak New Member

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    I agree with squirrelman. My very, very limited time on the track quickly taught me that fewer inputs and smoother inputs made me more relaxed and faster overall. Ham fisted inputs make for a twitchy bike. One line, one turn makes it easier to feel what the front end is doing, the suspension settles, I look farther ahead and can tell what the bike is doing better. This is what I think the OP meant by doing less.
     
  3. ridervfr

    ridervfr Member

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    I was at the dentist today (oh-joy.) and he called me an old fart, but when the bastage axed me my age, I lied and shaved 10 years off, so; at that point I was deemed an un-old-fart. (true-story, why would me lie.)

    Sounds like a 200 level Psychology class assignment, kinda like trolling for old-fart feelings/ideas, etc...?

    What aboot a double apex turn? They do exist, :flip: Buffalo, if your jealous grey-ice-hunchin, you can visit paradise :pound: :pound: Chew with your mouth closed you damn animals! Thats all I gots to say ; )
     
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Prior to chewing with mouth closed, insert teeth.

    A message from "Dentists Who Ride".

    Our founder:

    http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/hYccIPB-ubo/hqdefault.jpg
     
  5. misti

    misti New Member

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    Thank you. One turn-one lean angle is a good point and it falls into the category of doing less while riding. A lot of riders make multiple steering inputs for one turn and basically do much more work than necessary. You want to choose a turn in point and make one steering input. Another good point is that riders often think that they need to continue to steer the bike through the turn so they keep pressure on the inside handlebar but provided you have good throttle control you should be able to counter steer into the turn, then release all pressure on the handlebar and the bike will maintain a predictable line through the turn until you counter steer back out.

    I have been a riding coach with Code and the California Superbike School for over 10 years and am still actively involved with the school, teaching whenever possible but with two small children of my own now it is much harder to make it to all the schools. For several years I taught full time with the school at around 80-90 school dates per year all over the USA and I also raced two seasons of AMA supersport and FX. Now, I stay home with my kids, private coach, have a monthly column with Motorcycle Mojo magazine and recently started a riding blog to document life with kids and motorcycles.

    The age demographics of most of the schools we teach are 40+ males that ride on the street. We do coach young kids and beginner to pro racers but the majority of students are regular Jo riders that simply want to improve their overall riding and gain confidence on the street. All of the techniques apply to both street riding and track riding. I don't sell spots for the school or get any benefit from promoting the school, I just enjoy visiting riding forums (and I frequent many of them) and participating in good discussions about riding skills and techniques. It's interesting to me to ask questions that encourage people to actively look at their own riding to see what they are doing and perhaps what they might change in order to improve. If you don't like the questions then just don't answer them, but some people are participating and it makes for a good discussion and that is the reason I'm here :)

    Exactly, thank you. When you are able to maintain being relaxed while riding you end up going faster with less effort and that is what I'm getting at here. It also comes down to doing specific things that help you be more relaxed. Some people just try to remind themselves to be relaxed but if you aren't stable with your lower body for example, with your knees squeezing the tank then it is almost impossible to keep your arms relaxed. Sometimes making a few minor adjustments to your body position or your visuals makes a world of difference in how much effort you put into your ride.
     
  6. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    You wonder if automobile drivers used 1/10 of what we use when riding how many fewer accidents there would be.
     
  7. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    A little quick on the trigger there Mr Bad. She has been teaching for a long time and is a very cool chick. She is on other track/race forums that I frequent and always is willing to help and teach. You may not like the question format but it does stimulate good conversation and thought. She is definitely not trolling and if you can honestly join in to the topic you may learn something.
     
  8. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Not being a frequenter of a shitload of other motorcycle sites or a true believer of everything I read on the internet , I do find the line of questioning repetitive and sophomoric. I agree it stimulates conversation but little thought and many opinions including yours and yours truly.

    Now just for shits and giggles let us join hands, minds and hearts and after the singing of Kum By Ya , we reduce the OPs post to just the questions sans the resume, the mommy genes and the CV and just address the questions. You will find same to have been asked countless times with as many or more opinions and what might be called answers that are at best subjective even on this tiny part of the net..

    My suggestion is that she spend an equal amount of time gathering the answers to the already asked questions on the hundreds of track and race fora that you say you frequent. Better yet you should help out rather than thinking you are even close to being Mr. Right. LOL

    Just a couple of more thoughts to pique your interest. It ain't all about going fast and there is more than just roadracing when it comes to racing. We also have the Einstein quasi- axiom that defines being nuts repeating the same action over and over expecting different results.

    Check around you may just learn something yourself.
     
  9. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    It wouldn't make much sense for me to even begin to answer your questions since you seem to already have all the answers to your own questions.
     
  10. Gator

    Gator Insider

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    Oh Billy Billy Billy. I think every forum has a Billy. Whatever you say sir. lol With 7000 posts I'm sure you have all the answers and opinions needed for all of us to learn from. And Socrates obviously knew all the answers yet still taught via this method.
     
  11. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Thankyou for your graceful capitulation and the Socratic analogy. Keeping in mind they offed the dude for corrupting the minds of youth. Whatever that meant.

    Only Reg has 7k posts. As I stipulated I do not frequent a shitload of bike sites. Just this one unless I am looking up something. You can of course look but I know that some dudes change handles like others change their skivvies. In case you don't quite get it, posting bullshit is just that. this includes inflating numbers in a feeble attempt to establish some point or other.

    Maybe stick to telling all you know about tires or oil or how fast you are. Those are the safe zones.
     
  12. misti

    misti New Member

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    Here's the thing. Sure, everyone can benefit from "doing less" on a motorcycle and of being relaxed while riding so in that sense, yes I do know the answer to questions I posed above. You should be relaxed when riding, you make one steering input and relax pressure on the handlebar, you use your legs to grip the tank etc etc. However, every rider is unique and without being able to SEE what you are doing, I can't possibly diagnose your exact riding issue or area where you might need more work.

    One rider might struggle with being able to relax on the bike because he is not locked on and stable with his lower body. Solving that issue will then help him relax his grip on the handlebars. Another rider may not be able to relax on the bars because he is target fixating on the turn in point so solving that issue will help him relax. Another rider may be turning too early, running wide at the exit of the turn and tensing up because he is off his intended line, solving that problem may help him relax. The point here is that everyone has their own specific riding issues -the end goal of everyone is the same…be relaxed while riding "do less" on the motorcycle" but the process for each person to achieve this may be vastly different.

    So, in order to stimulate discussion and to help narrow down what YOUR OWN RIDING ISSUES MAY BE, I ask specific questions to encourage self evaluation, self reflection and hopefully help you discover how you might be able to tune up your own riding a little bit. I'm a riding coach, I like helping people ride better and discover new things about riding skills and techniques. If I can't ride alongside you, the next best thing is to discuss riding tech here on the forums.

    If you don't like the questions then just don't answer and don't participate. You don't have to constantly try to derail a thread that others are participating in just because you don't like my method of questioning…
     
  13. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Thanks, As difficult as it seems I shall try to do less, more or less.
     
  14. boscoe

    boscoe New Member

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    During track day and practice laps, I concentrate on doing one thing well. Either body position, shifting, keeping my eyes up. Of course, in a race it all goes out the window.
    Meanwhile, I'm 4 to 6 seconds faster - you read that right - on a slower machine!
    My lap times are much, much better after switching to a Ducati 1000ss dual spark from a CBR1000RR; CBR 600RR and Suzuki GSXR 600. I'm convinced this has to do with engine braking and engine characteristics. On long straightways, I was always concentrating on winding my in-line fours out to redline in each gear. At the end, the speed is rather over-whelming. Oops, there goes my braking marker!!! Means I have to get on the brakes harder, downshift quicker and have less time to set up for a turn.
    But on my two cylinder, I feel like I have time to smoke a cigarette (relatively) as a roll up to my braking markers, slide my ass over, down shift and trail brake. Plus, the engine is more forgiving if I'm in the wrong gear on exit.
     
  15. misti

    misti New Member

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    I like how you say that during a track day or practice laps you work on doing one thing well, but then you say that during a race it all goes put the window. What do you mean by that? Do you mean that you just aren't practicing one thing at a time or that all your technique goes out the window?

    I used to practice one thing at a time during track/practice days, always had a focus of something to work on but then during the race I would JUST RIDE. All the hard work and practice led up to those moments where I just tried to relax and let everything come together.
     
  16. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    Ah forum teaching! Society moves forward and the method quality goes down.

    Now before you claim anything about me, know this: I take about 15 courses a year to further my education. Most of them are online and self study. So I know the value of the internet as a teaching tool.
    I am not a top rider in any sense, but like some on here I have done the courses for better riding. I have also took courses to pass on what I know and have learned to other riders. So I respect what you are trying to do. But you cant teach some one to ride over a forum thread. Even with a video cam you cant do it. The several riders I have taught to ride safely have been told to take any motorcycle course they can from basics to advanced, all I teach is the new riders book and what it doesnt say that they should know. None via forum.

    Now, this is a forum for help of the either social type (finding riders of the same bike/mind set) or mechanical and electrical. The latter of which we have more than qualified members to help with. Not that you may or may not know something, we encourage input, wrong as it sometimes is, it sometimes leads to the right answer.
    Im sure you are well meaning and do have good answers, but none of your questions can be answered so simply or by one person.

    And for your information, what I think "Do less" means is thinking. New riders tend to over think what they are doing because they dont know what they are doing. So they tend to think, make a input then think again, but everything has changed so they make another input. This usually makes them uncomfortable and again make more inputs. So they can do more by doing less.
    I dont see any difference in advanced riders of any tier. If something is explained in a way you dont quite understand then you wont do it right, then try to do it and the instructor tells you you arent listening or that your not ready for that technique yet.
    I would say having a rider do less means I must give them more, more of my time, more verbal and slow speed demonstration. More encouragement. Give them the confidence to learn to work less to do more.

    Rant over, I agree with billy (that is sometime that is rare)
     
  17. boscoe

    boscoe New Member

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    Yes, Mistoi. When race day comes, I just ride. I try to keep my focus - so I don't kill myself or anyone else - and don't concentrate (at least consciously) on technique. Just try to be smooth. Never abrupt on the gas or off.
    Doesn't always work, of course. But I try to find my zen space. I liken it to golf. If a blow one apex, entry or exit, I look forward, not behind. You can't reshoot a botched golf shot, but you can botch more if you dwell on what happened instead of what you will do next. Always forward, never behind. Post mortems are for after the race... or after you expire in a crash!
     
  18. boscoe

    boscoe New Member

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    Sorry about the typo, Misti.
    Yo, Zen: Find your center! This is a social site. If she wants to talk about the philosophy of racing/riding technique why get your knickers in a twist.
    It's kind of like porn.
    Not interested?
    Don't watch.
    Easy peasy.
     
  19. ZEN biker

    ZEN biker New Member

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    Boscoe, we have said basically the same thing, I just did with less. Ever notice that every philosophy thread gets hammered? I figure and this is just one opinion that its due to the fact that those who do try to better themselves and their riding tend to not want yet another preacher. Especially one 1800kms away whom has never seen you and your riding. But thats just my opinion from reviewing several similar posts.
     
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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