BMC Air Filter

The factory fuel/ignition mapping has been optimized for passing emissions testing while running 87 octane fuel. That is why there is a lot of timing being pulled in the 2500-7500 range and the fuel mapping is really lean around there (especially at around 5000 rpms), because this is where the emissions testing is done. The 6th gen vfr responds very well to advancing the ignition timing a few degrees (while running 93 octane of course) and adding some fuel in that area, the vfr becomes a blast to ride. Fun fact, after around 8000 rpms, there isn't any need to advance the timing any more over the stock ignition timing map and the fuel mapping is pretty good, actually on the rich side, but pretty much where it needs to be after adding a full exhaust and air box mods etc.....

 

Okay I will edit and change "stoich" to "an ideal air/fuel ratio"
But, basically what I am saying, is you can adjust the fuel mapping on a factory stock sixth gen vfr800 to run at say 13.2:1 at wide open throttle.
Now go ahead and gut your mufflers and install a BMC or KN air filter.
Do a WOT pull on the dyno with an exhaust gas analyzer.
Would you see anywhere on the air/fuel ratio curve that is now over 13.2:1, say 13.3 or 13.4 and you needed to add a few percent fuel in that fuel map cell to get it back to 13.2 due to any added air flow over the stock air filter and mufflers?
I doubt it. Is it possible? Sure. Do I want to do all the leg work my self to prove a point on the internet? No, not really.



Just so you can see where I am coming from, I bought my 2007 vfr factory stock. Then one by one, I gutted the factory mufflers, added a BMC filter, added a motad header, then got a slip on, did the air box mods, got a power commander and did a custom dyno tune. Nothing noticeable or dramatic happened. My trap speed went from a stock 116mph to 120, which I believe was mainly attributed to weight reduction (I was dynoing 102 whp at this time, which is basically the same as every other slip on and tune vfr)
Later on I finally got a hold of a true two brothers racing full system, an actual performance air filter (the pipercross), installed r6 velocity stacks (port matched the vfr throttle bodies to the r6 velocity stacks) and adjusted the air/fuel and ignition mapping (Rapid Bike).
This is where things finally got interesting and my quarter mile trap speeds when from 120 mph to 128.
I know everyone want to see dyno numbers, but The Rapid Bike Racing is street tunable with 4 wide band o2 sensors, so I have no need for dyno tuning other than forum bragging rights. I have my original 102hp dyno print out and time slips if anyone cares.

 

OMG! I just wanted to know about fitment and such. Thanks for that extra.


Man I wish I was a mechanic and an engineer!


You win CandyMan, yours is the best.

I just hope I can learn to push these bikes as I have with some cars, then we can have fun.

 

Don't sell norcal short. He is leaps and bounds ahead of me in actual engine work. I have just about finished everything up to pulling the engine out, but norcal has pulled his engine, massaged the heads, custom cams etc...

 

I was being totally sarcastic!

Anyway, customer service never got back to me; so, I took a quick look at eBay.

Well, there were Pipercross filters for the VFR each for $15.00 plus $10.00 S&H :crazy:

I got the last two. Feeling that it was a spoofed account but with PayPal buyer protection, I pressed forward.

Happily, I got a tracking number from USPS with update that the package is in transit. Yes; keeping fingers crossed.

If everything goes well, there will be two filters, so no down time for one bike; one gets cleaned and the other, used. I'd then return the BMC to the Kickstand where it was ordered. I'll just put that money on something else. Always lusting after something there.

I'll keep the group informed on how things are going; wish me luck.

 

As long as you think it's right, that's all that matters. Let's just say we share a very different opinion as to what is a perfect tune and how to get there.

 

Haha norcal, i do have a lot of respect for you getting the engine out, doing some head work and degreeing the cams etc, but you never even touched the ignition timing on your last vfr build. You never put on a real header. You only tuned only tuned the air fuel ratio for the average of the four cylinders and not each cylinder individually. You did do a whole lot of work, but there was plenty left. Yes we have a very different idea of tuning.

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25+ hours of dyno time with some pretty respected folks taught me that there is a good direction for these engines. We completely disagree on most issues and I have no problem with that. I stand by my experience that you don't need a bunch of ignition advance and that a 4 or 5 gas analyzer on an eddy current dyno will give a substantially better tune for best power than lambda sensors. These are facts, not trap speeds.

 

There were no facts, as you refused to ever post a dyno chart. How can your experience show you that you don't need to a just the ignition timing at all, if you never had any means to adjust the ignition timing? I never caught any where on your posts where you individually tuned the cylinders fuelling needs or had any means to do so.

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No I never did, but I will tell you that what I learned was worth the expense. I know what's bullshit and I know what isn't. FYI...the ignition ended being a tad bit retarded, as opposed to advanced, to make best power.

Just a little something for you to look at and think about:

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_ignition_timing_tech.html

http://www.factorypro.com/tech_dyno/dyno_TUNING,4gasEGAvso2sensor.html

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/autotuning, non-optimum results,tuning_to_best_power,ex300.html

These guys are the guys I learned from...well sometimes, it was beat into me.....because I read too much bullshit on the internet or listened to accessory manufacturers claims and believed them.

 

What did you use a timing adjustment plate? So only one setting? Not an actual adjustable ignition map? As far as where the ignition timing should be adjusted compared to the stock ignition table, moving the table as a whole up or down a few degrees would have been a horrible compromise. This is the ignition map that Dimsport developed for the sixth gen vfr800. At wot it needed 5 degrees advance over stock around 7000 RPMs, but it needed 1 degree of retard after 10,000 RPMs. Of course after doing actual engine work, it would need to be remade, but on my bike, I am sure it is 90% and a huge improvement over stock.







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Anyway, it's crazy I should get a communication now.
The jury is out until we get the "PiperCross" filters.

Here is the correspondence of the email:



Alessandro Galletti <alessandro.galletti@bmcairfilters.com>
Today at 7:08 AM

I apologize for my late reply.
I spoke with the technical department and they suggest you to try to extract the filter from the plastic frame, turn it of 180° and fill it again in the plastic frame.
After this simple change you should be able to install the filter correctly.
Please let me know if you will find any issues in this process.
I remain at your complete disposal.
Kind regards,
Alessandro

I think there is a typo in there, "of 180°". I don't think turning it about its vertical axis will do anything; maybe about its horizontal axis will do it; however, I don't have the filter in front of me. I will check tonight and report.

 

Easy guys. A fight is brewing.

Anyway, I appreciate your work on that "6th" gen. It is also pretty neat how you made those changes and didn't get what you anticipated. However, what is disturbing, is that these changes only netted minimal results in your opinion. In mine, as I stated earlier, removing restrictions to get a better feel is what is desired. You did it and wanted more. All those increases in throttle response and removing of smallish bottlenecks was worth it.

However, before you started delving into that highly optimized engine, a volumetric efficiency check vs. rpm derived from either the torque or hp curves would have netted much useful information.

The trick would have been a compromise that gave you hopefully most of what you wanted. Remember intake and exhaust are a system like your mouth and arse. Either stopped up will screw you. Too open on one end still problems. Oh wow, then we gotta think about metabolism also. Anyway, its a trade off backpressure for low end and wide open at the bottom end for exhaust. For the induction system, its also a trade off on the long straw needed for high end vs a short one for the low end. Oh yeah, power pulse reverberation, those gulps you hear aid in induction and help to create that swirled pattern.

Anyway, to make a long story short, its a compromise. That's engineering.

Oh yeah, I am an inexperienced mechanic and an EE :smiley_simmons:

Competed in mathematics with a paper for recommended modifications based upon the math for an MX-6 LS.
Discovered alot. Even was given an engine like mine to do a tolerance study. While in the presentation,
some of the mathematicians call in the LICENSED PROFESSIONAL automotive engineering professors (Mississippi State) from the other session.

All i got was thumbs up and nods. When receiving first place with that, I was donned Johnny "HotRod" ...

Anyway, just letting yall know I'm not a dimwit and yall can stop the fighting. But I'm definitely being exposed to some useful measurement devices and such.

Still have the paper; bought tires with the award money; and the cheapish certificate.

 

BMC --> Now, after turning the element over, it works. Fitment is not perfect that same spot but very easily rectified with some good wiggles and timing--minute.



PiperCross--> The real deal, genuine. Guess what, got the PiperCross Filters. The fit is great with the plastic still on the filter. Wow.
I've pics of the ordered filters from eBay. Thought it might have been a scam but wham, not! 2fer50 delivered--lol. Anyway, look at pics.

I'm going to ask one of the computation guys about creating a problem from this. Maybe I can get my adviser to approve the topic.
It'll have to involve the Xeon Phi though. Ha Ha Ha! I'm going to try and throw it at them.

Hurried but -->Enjoy.

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I do not understand your last paragraph about "computation guys". Maybe it has to do with the photos which I cannot see. They show invalid links.