Anyone installed a 6th-gen swingarm on a 5th-gen?

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by BTF/PTM, Aug 23, 2016.

  1. BTF/PTM

    BTF/PTM New Member

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    Anyone replaced defective 5th-gen swingarm components simply by installing a 6th-gen swingarm or related parts?

    I checked the part numbers, the diagram numbers and Honda part numbers for the complete assemblies (whole swing arm, whole rear wheel bearing carrier, etc) are different, but the Honda part numbers for the individual components are all the same, with the exception of the pivot axle and nut for the swing arm - the 98 uses a pivot axle, collar and nut while the 02+ eliminates the collar with a different pivot axle and nut. Should fit 1:1 since all the swingarm parts match.

    Just wanted to ask before I went for it. Thanks, folks.
     
  2. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    I believe the actual swing arms are different as they pivot in different places, but the components like wheel carrier, bearings and seals are the same.
     
  3. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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  4. BTF/PTM

    BTF/PTM New Member

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    That link is a great read and a killer project, but if I understood it all correctly, had nothing to do with a swingarm swap. That was a 5th-gen frame and swingarm that got a 6th-gen subframe and exhaust (among all the other stuff). Thanks in any case for the help =)

    If the swingarms for 5th gen and 6th mount in different places, then maybe the length of the arm is different. Unfortunately I couldn't find a part number for the bare casting, only the whole assemblies. I'll keep digging.

    Additional info still welcome, thanks folks!
     
  5. digitallyhip

    digitallyhip New Member

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    I am parting out a 6th gen... In Canada, so shipping may be brutal.
     
  6. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Got the exhaust still?

    I am thinking of getting a second set of stock exhaust and gutting it. I like the stock look but want better sound.
     
  7. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    I have an exhaust with Black ceramic coating :wink:
    Come and get it :thumb:
     
  8. Jeff_Barrett

    Jeff_Barrett Member

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    Send me a PM with price and photos. For 6th gen??

    Maybe I'll come get em at R3??

    Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
     
  9. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    Bumping an old thread to seek advice about fitting a 6th gen swingarm on my 5th gen track mule.

    I‘ve seen threads where a 6th gen swingarm was grafted into a 5th gen using the 6th gen cushion.

    It’s also been established that a 6th gen swingarm is around 1.25 inches longer than a 5th gen and has a slightly different profile.

    My bike has USD fork conversion (Kawasaki ZX6R 2007) so front wheel is a bit closer to the rider.

    My questions are:

    1. with rear wheel further behind rider (and front wheel closer) will I have poor weight distribution? Rider weight has effectively been shifted further forward. Will front braking suffer? Will rear wheel spin up on accel?

    2. will my 5th gen rear shock still fit? Just got a new Wilbers built to my weight and I’d be devastated if it doesn’t fit. Will new shock position affect the setup?

    3. has anyone who did the swap noticed changes in handling? Is the longer arm better for stability but worse on tight bends? Is it noticeable? I’d be especially eager to hear from those who’ve also got a front end conversion.

    Stray
     
  10. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    There was a thread by VFRcanuck over on VFRD , it's been a few years...... he's a pretty savy tech guy, trying to get a 6th swingarm to work on a 5th......and I think the answer was, it doesn't.

    Check with him directly for questions.
     
  11. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    In my head calculations tell me the Kwaka front end will make your trail longer, this slows down your steering response.
    Using a longer swing arm will make this even worse.
    A bit extra weight on the front wheel is not a bad thing on a track bike, and the 5G geometry is very relaxed, so it won't get nervous at speed.
    I don't think there will be anything wrong with your set up as is, except for slower turn in.
     
  12. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    Thanks MD. I read VEFCanuck’s thread and he was the first guy to try. Others have followed in his footsteps and got it done (the Carver family have, for example). Couple of others used the 6th gen cushion and also got it done.

    Thanks Oz VFR. I would have thought turn in would be sharper using the ZX6R 2007 forks. Offset is smaller and forks are shorter than OEM. Wheelbase will therefore be smaller. Have I got it wrong?
     
  13. mello dude

    mello dude Member

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    The Carver family definitely are some creative tech savvy guys....mini-carvers RWB 6th gen, 5th engine, 8th wheels and brakes bike blows me away.
     
  14. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

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    The shorter forks will help, but the smaller offset gives you longer trail which has a bigger effect on slowing down turn in.
     
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  15. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    Looks like I’ve got a lot to learn still about this stuff...

    Thanks OZ VFR.
     
  16. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    Thanks VFR OZ, I didn’t know how offset affects trail. Still got lots to learn about all this...
     
  17. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    Still hoping to hear from anyone who’s fitted a 6th gen swinger on a 5th gen bike.
     
  18. Cr500

    Cr500 Insider

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    i have a 2015 swingarm on my '99.
    to install a 02 up arm on your bike itd be exactly what i had to do.
    the linkage ratio is same 02 up. you will need.
    i did this a few years ago so i might have forgot a few things.
    the linkage ratio is same, but i remember a change from aluminum to steel pullrods.
    the 02 up arm is around 3/4" longer. i was wondering how that would affect things, but my bike handles pretty right the way it sits.
    i have a 2016ish zx10r rear shock valved/ sprung for this bike. i made the clevis to mount to bike.
    to actually mount arm though, i remember the left footpeg bracket being moved over a hair. i made a simple collar for bolt that it mounts up to.
    the right side was as it was
    i used a 14-15 arm mainly cause i wanted the rear wheel and brake caliper from that bike.
    i feel like i mix/ matched some collars for the left side, but i might be wrong.
    it all worked out great. pretty simple actually.
     
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  19. Stray

    Stray New Member

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    That’s a really helpful post - thanks CR500!
     
  20. Cr500

    Cr500 Insider

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    Im sorry, i didnt give a great explanation of exactly whAt i did. like i was saying it was a few years ago, i made notes, will have to go back and look. But the geometry of the newer arm is longer, but with my rear hub rotated all the way forward, i was within 1/2-3/4” of my 99 arm. Talking center of swingarm pivot to center of rear axle.
    you will have To use 02 up linkage. They are the exact same 02-15, only if i recall in 14 the dogbones were steel, older were aluminum. If I also recall, the knuckle is the same from 98-15.
    im not sure if a rear shock change is neccesary, but id imagine you wouldnt consider swapping this stuff and leaving the stock garbage on there. But i suppose i could have used my stock shock, if there is/ was a height difference, id assume the 02 up shock is hair longer, you could always space your upper shock mount down some.
    But on the swingarm mounting, im pretty sure i used 2 swingarm collars from right side. Like the right side had the one there, and the left side had the right side collar from my old arm. I reused my original pivot bolt/ nut. once i did that everything centered up perfectly. Chain/ shock/ etc
    On the 98-01 the footpeg mount is bolted thru swingarm pivot, but stays centered because of a allen bolt on each case. Basically the peg mount has a pocket. The head of allen fits in pocket. So on my left side, my peg mount was moved about 3/8” out. So i just installed a longer allen, with like a 3/8” collar on it so all that would fit back up like normal.
    I used a 14-15 rear master/ caliper, so i made a brake line, did a 520 conversion, and used a 14-15 rear wheel.
    I did however, weld about a 3/8” tab underneath each center stand peg to raise bike up when center stand out. Like it was my rear wheel was like 1mm off ground.
    here are a few photos. If i did it again i would have stripped the black off rear sprocket carrier. Maybe if it ever comes off. E559941D-6215-4E56-927C-F3F475FBF45F.jpeg 1CD9CE42-B659-4853-B658-C39D90CA46B0.jpeg
     
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