Another '99 5th gen restoration

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by w3bdevil, Oct 2, 2019.

  1. GreginDenver

    GreginDenver New Member

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    Yeah, it's a bit of work to go through the valves but you're really gonna like how this engine responds to proper valve clearances. It's worth the effort.

    With regard to your thought about the bike only having 25K miles on it, I got similar valve measurements (tightness) on my '99 which only had 19K miles when I purchased it. I think there it's normal for the cylinder head to experience a pretty good bit of "valve movement" at that mileage. I understand that after the first valve adjustment (at a mileage similar to our bikes) the "movement" of the metal in the cylinder head valve seas slows to almost nothing.

    My second 5th Gen VFR, the '01, is a very low-miles bike, with only a bit over 12K miles when I purchased it. Even with that low mileage I still went ahead with a valve clearance check/adjustment on bike. The exhaust valves were all within specification but on the intake side 6 out of 8 valves were tight or close-to-tight.

    I don't know what it says about my personality, but I actually enjoy doing valve clearance checks/adjustments.
     
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  2. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    So nothing unusual, good to know. The valves on this one have been checked at around 28k km (17k miles) but there's no record of whether any adjustments were made or not, maybe they were still inside spec at that time. Where did you end up sourcing the shims from? I figured I'd take them all out measuring everything with a micrometer, then see if any of the old ones would match the target thickness for any of the other valves and use them first. Then just buy individual ones for the rest from David Silver Spares etc. although the individual ones are quite expensive.
     
  3. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Here we go. Took out the camshafts following the procedure in the service manual and maybe tomorrow I'll get to take the valve lifters out and measure the existing shims.

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  4. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader New Member

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    I dont want to rain on your parade , but isnt there a massive timing problem if you take out all the camshafts ?
    I personally would only do one head at a time. . .
     
  5. GreginDenver

    GreginDenver New Member

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    Every item has markings (some have more than one) that allow you to reassemble the cylinder head from a pile of parts. Numbers are stamped onto parts and the "IN" or "EX" casting is struck-through with lines of dots, etc.

    It's true that most people will do just one cylinder head at a time, which is just an amateur garage-mechanic acting out of an "abundance of caution".
     
  6. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Not really. If you do it according to the service manual, you're left with the #3 at TDC on compression stroke. If you don't now go turning the engine, it's exactly where it needs to be to start putting things back together starting from the rear. Like GreginDenver mentioned, everything is marked so even if you don't maintain the order yourself (which is what I always try to do when disassembling things) you can still get everything in order and lined up with the markings on the parts.
     
  7. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Got the valve lifters out. Didn't have a suitable magnet or a valve lapping tool like The Manual says so I had to go with a makeshift solution -> wipe the oil off and use a bit of tape to lift them. All but one of the shims stuck to the lifters and I managed not to drop any inside the block. I can re-use a couple of them but since they were so far off I have to get 12 new ones.

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    Rear valve cover was easy to clean and the finish is almost like it just left the factory. The front however with all the dirt from the front tire etc. was heavily stained with all kinds of filth. Finally managed to get it into reasonable shape.

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  8. tsjoe007

    tsjoe007 New Member

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    If you are looking for an easy shim calculator, send me pm.
    And ALWAYS measure the shims with a micrometer : when working on the TLR I found some of the shims where filed off to meet the clearances !
    So don't rely on the printed numbers on the shims.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2019
  9. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader New Member

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    Good glad youve got it sorted ( factory service manual is a wonderful thing ). Might be cheaper to buy a box with all the shim sixes in than individual shims . Hotcams i think its called
     
  10. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Thanks but I already went and made my own so I've got those figured out now. Calculated the ideal numbers first and then picked the closest available shim thickness. I had to measure them with a micrometer anyway since the printed numbers were not visible in many of them. I've also read about people filing shims to thickness but doesn't that take away the hard surface and make them wear quicker? At least adds confusion on the next guy doing the clearances.
     
  11. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Thought about that first but there's a but. I couldn't find one which would have ALL the available thicknesses, they only seem to have every other one (0,05mm in between instead of 0,025mm) and have only three of the same size. I need 6 of a certain size and I want to have them as close as I can, so I'll order individual ones. I need 12 of them and that'll be about the same price than a Hotcams box and I won't be left with a boxfull of shims I probably won't ever need and unnecessarily sloppy adjustment.
     
  12. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    In case someone was wondering, I've been doing a LOT of cleaning lately. Here's a small progress update.

    First piece of the new coolant hoses ready, from AS3 performance in UK with stainless steel clamps.

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    Probably the dirtiest spot on the whole bike but finally reasonably clean. The cover is open for a reason, I'm waiting for a Factory Pro shift star kit to arrive.

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    The original radiators were in such a poor shape with spot corrosion and signs of leak I finally decided to pull the trigger and get new ones. OEM's are ridiculously expensive so I got aftermarket ones. They are a bit wider so a bit more capacity than the originals, not sure whether that actually matters much. "Aircraft quality" aluminum, whatever that means, and TIG welded with 1yr warranty.

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  13. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Finally got the shims along with other parts so it was time to move forward with the valve adjustment. I first calculated the ideal shim values and then picked the closest ones Honda has to offer. I had to replace most of them, only managed to reuse 4. Here the new ones in place:

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    Then it was just a matter of putting everything back the way it was. Very straightforward process, just followed the workshop manual to line everything up. Lifters in place, the reddish stuff is the assembly lube I used.

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    Sorry no more pics about this, I was too focused on the job to remember taking them. After installing and aligning the camshafts I rotated the engine 3-4 full turns and measured the clearances again twice with the result that now they are all within 0,01 mm from spec. Intake valves are all 0,15-0,16 and exhaust valves 0,30-0,31 so I'm very happy with the result.
     
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  14. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    The other thing I was waiting for was new fork seals and bushings. I first took the forks apart completely and cleaned them inside out, then put the tube and slider back together with new bushings and seals. I was looking into upgrading the internals with either Race tech stuff (springs, valves etc.) or DMr cartridges but shipping and VAT added to US prices was just too much for me so I went with a more local option, Andreani Misano EVO from Italy. They are fully adjustable (preload, compression and rebound) with compression adjustment in one leg and rebound adjustment in the other.

    Forks right off the bike. The hacksaw plays no part here, no forks were harmed during the process. Much. More on that later...

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    Old fork internals.

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    Here's a link if you want to see what the Misanos look like: https://www.andreanigroup.com/news/moto/198/?lng=en

    Initially I thought they would be a simple drop-in replacement but turns out this is not the case with our beloved VFR. They require you to remove a few bits from the inside end of the inner tube. Stock 5th gen use a spring to soften the rebound when the fork extends fully and to make this work there's a stopper bushing inside each of the fork tubes. They are installed on the inside end of the tube and locked in by rolling the end of the fork tube so there's no easy way to get them out, unless you happen to have a lathe in your garage. Andreani cartridges do not use such top out spring and their instruction sheet specifically says to remove the bushings and spacers. Luckily I got a local machinist to mill the rolled edge off the tubes for a few euros. I guess it could be done carefully with an angle grinder or something in case a lathe is out of the question. In the pic below are the bits that were removed.

    VFRW post where I got some of this info (someone doing the same to a 6th gen)

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    Forks cleaned and completely rebuilt with new internals.

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  15. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Since I now got the parts I went and opened the clutch cover to see what lies in there. To my eye the stock friction plates look ok'ish although there is not that much material left. To be honest I lack the knowledge to estimate how long they still could have gone. About half of the steel plates (the middle ones) were strongly coloured like they would have heated up, see the comparison with old and new plates below. I could probably have reused the steel plates but since I got the new parts as a kit it had new ones.

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    Old spring on the left, new one on the right.

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    New friction plates soaking in engine oil waiting to be installed.

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  16. raYzerman

    raYzerman Insider

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    I order individual shims from RockyMountainATV...... $2 each, available in 0.025 sizes. As for sanding shims, there's been several discussions on various forums... AFAIK, they aren't hardened and nobody's had a problem with sanded ones. That said, I'd rather just order what I need.
     
  17. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    At $2 each you're far better off than me :) I kind of assumed they'd be hardened and sanding would make them wear faster. Well, as always I should've done a bit of research and not an assumption. I would anyway have gone with right size shims instead of sanding though.
     
  18. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    The wheels have now been sent to be refinished and I also got a far better offer for the exhaust than previously so I sent it along too. Wheels will get jet black powder coat on them and the pipe will get a matte black heat-resistant powder coat. No idea how well the powder coat will last on the exhaust but the guy doing it said he had done it before and no one had come back complaining :) Also, for the price he quoted I'm willing to take my chances.

    Otherwise, I've slowly started fitting things back on. Still waiting for the shift star so cannot install the water pump yet. The new radiators seem to be of decent quality but some of the fittings (cooling fan and radiator-to-frame) are slightly off so I had to bend them a bit to fit, not a big deal really. I cleaned everything in the middle of the V where it matters, getting all the loose dirt off and then with some cleaning solution and brushes. There was still some grime left but I thought I'll leave it 'good enough' since it doesn't really matter that much. New brake lines are now in place, fitted but not torqued yet.

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  19. tsjoe007

    tsjoe007 New Member

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    May I suggest something ?
    Now that you have access to the thermostat replace it with a new one. They are not expensive and you can rest on both ears for years to come.:thumbs:
    Oh and install SpeedBleeders on the calipers, less pita when bleeding the brakesystem
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2019
  20. w3bdevil

    w3bdevil New Member

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    Yes you may, the thermostat has actually already been changed before installing the new coolant hoses. SpeedBleeders are waiting on my desk. I thought I'd do the initial filling of the lines with the old bleeders (with a vacuum bleeder) and then change them to SpeedBleeders and do the final bleeding by pumping on the lever/pedal.
     
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