A forbidden thing to do;-) Delinked my brakes.

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by OnlyVfr, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Hi. Thanks for the response. I would agree with your initial summary at the start of the thread. There was an improvement but the front brakes aren't as good as I had hoped and are still slightly spongy. I don't believe they need rebuilding, all pots move freely. I just think they are preforming as well as they can with the 5G M/C. Has any body tried changing to a 14mm M/C with the existing front callipers de linked?
    I admire your determination to stick with the 5G fork lowers and make up new calliper brackets. To be honest here in the UK Firestorm fork lowers are plentiful enough and cheap enough to make it an easier option than fabrication. However you will have something that looks bespoke when you are done.
    I would still like to know why others members are not using all the VTR parts, callipers, M/C's(front and rear),fork lowers, in preference for Fireblade and CBR 600rr parts they need to be modified, if only slightly, to fit.
     
  2. raYzerman

    raYzerman Insider

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    For me personally, I wouldn't de-link, but I can see your point for track days... wonder how it would be just to block the middle piston on the rear, but you're doing all the experimental work, keep us posted and best of luck.
     
  3. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    I also own a VTR1000; the calipers are not awful, but I do feel that Honda used a poor combination of master and caliper pistons that made the brake needlessly grabby. By comparison, the combination of the CBR600RR master and calipers is superior for feel and power, and they are cheap and common to buy. The work required to fit these to the VTR lowers is very minor, maybe 15 minutes with a hand file per leg is all that is required (I did not touch the calipers).
     
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  4. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

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    Fabrication will cost me 50 quid at most:) Having forks rebuilt, sprayed, progressive springs in, it would be waste of my work and money to go for different lowers now, additionally you have to drill front fender etc. Let us know how you got on with your project!:)
     
  5. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Hi Terrry

    Thanks for the response. That was exactly what I wanted to know. To date nobody had said why the full VTR1000 set up wasn't being utilised. CBR600RR master and calliper's is the way to go then. I'll do the modification and let you know what I think when its completed. Great info.

    Hi OnlyVfr

    Good luck with the fabrication.
     
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  6. Darth Vader

    Darth Vader New Member

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    When I did my delink I used the firestorm calipers m/c and fork lowers. Honda used these calipers on the early fireblades so its early 90s technology . I find them very good for my gentle riding style certainly better than the stock ones, plus I find bleeding so much easier. But brakes have moved on since then and the 600rr brakes are considered the best.
     
  7. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Thanks for the response Terry.

    OK. I am getting there with the parts but another curved ball has popped up. I have noticed that the part number of the fork lowers changed.
    1997 ->2000 product number: 51420MBB003
    2001->200? product number: 51420MBBD41
    2008 Product number is different again.

    It appears that the VTR1000F became the VFR1000F ASV (front fork) version in 2001. Please can anybody tell me if there are any difference in the calliper mounting bolts between any of the models or are they all the same. I need to know as I have bought CBR600RR 2003 callipers to fit.

    Thnaks and regards
    Nibbler.
     
  8. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    I'm not aware that Honda made any changes to the brakes or fork externals on the 01 onwards; they did change the handlebars and the internal damper parts, hence the change to the fork part number. Probably a different colour as well, early ones are silver and later are greeny/gold.
     
  9. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    The last three digits/letters in the part number are used to signify the manufacturer of the part itself. So it would appear that they changed the supplier of the part and upgraded the part number to reflect that. The middle three digits/letters signify the model the part came from originally. You will see many times that the part number for a specific machine was actually a part number from a different machine, as it was used on that model inititially. The first set of numbers is actually the type of part.
     
  10. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Thanks Terry and NorcalBoy.

    Gives me the confidence to grab an
    y version of the VTR1000 forks I can get my hands on, knowing the callipers should fit.
    Ill be back with an update when the upgrade has been completed. Unless I run into any further issues.

    Thanks and regards
    Nibbler
     
  11. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Oh dear…... a problem straight away with the rear master cylinder.
    I purchased a CBR600RR master cylinder 03yr believing all the early 2000 models were 14mm. It isn't its 5/8, that's a whopping 16mm, 15.875mm to be precise. I can only guess what this will do at the moment. One good thing was the threaded rod, to adjustment
    pedal throw,
    was identical to the VFR 800 and didn't need to be shortened. However the plastic input pipe from the reservoir was much smaller than the VFR's but was a simple swap between the two master cylinders. I couldn't use the CBR600RR brake fluid reservoir or pipe as they route and mount differently.
    Also the holes in the mounting lugs on the CBR600RR M/C needed to be drilled out to 6.5mm as they were smaller and threaded at 5mm. I had used a single brake line and a loop on the rear calliper but have now run two lines. One steel braided line and one of the standard lines.
    All I have to do now is fill with brake fluid and test the set up. Watch this space.
     
  12. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    A master cylinder piston diameter, larger than the stock piston diameter, will provide less pressure at the caliper pistons, with less lever travel required to move the same amount of fluid as before. A couple millimeters, and in your case, 14mm v. 15.8mm, usually won't effect things too adversely. But the "feel" will change from the stock configuration.
     
  13. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Thanks NorcalBoy.
    I have decided to fit the 14mm version after your insight of the predicted performance of the lager bore CBR600rr 2003 M/C. Also I haven't yet filled the system with brake fluid, have the back wheel and exhaust off and its still on the ramp. Plus I managed to get the 14mm F4I m/c for £19.00, which seems good value if its fully functional. Great info. Thanks
     
  14. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

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    Well for those interested. After having changed the VFR rear M/C to a CBR 600rr 2003 master cylinder I have changed it again to a F4I M/C. I have 2 lines running from the M/C to the VFR rear calliper. It was a pain to get the brake fluid back into the system. After having filled the header tank and using a one way bleed valve at the calliper I couldn't get the fluid back to the calliper pressing the brake pedal. Luckily I have a large syringe and using a short length of tubing connected between the calliper bleed nipples and the syringe was able to suck the air out and the fluid back into the calliper. I had to do this for both lines. Eventually the brake pedal could be used to finally purge all air from the lines in the usual way.
    With regards to the F4I M/C fitting the bolt holes were too small as per the CBR600RR M/C. I had to drill them out to 6.5mm to accommodate the VFR mounting bolts. Also the black plastic inlet pipe connected to the M/C with a small screw was too small but is interchangeable with the original VFR M/C, careful not to damage the "O" ring. Apart from cutting 35mm of the length of the threaded operating rod its on, I nave not had time to test it yet as I am about to swap the front end...….

    14mm.JPG both mc's.JPG cut mc.JPG

    2nd photo shows the VFR M/C on the right and the F4I on the left. The detents for the Banjos are in a different place but don't fowl the standard line I used in conjunction with the HEL line. The size of the VFR M/C looks like 11/16th". That equates to 17.46mm. So the bore of the F4I is a fair bit smaller. As for the feel improving I really hope so.
     
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  15. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

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    Did the feel improve?
     
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