A forbidden thing to do;-) Delinked my brakes.

Discussion in '5th Generation 1998-2001' started by OnlyVfr, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Hi all,

    I eventually made a decision to de-link my brakes. I bought the Hel de-linking kit and hoped that it will be an easy job.

    I started work on the front end, draining entire brake fluid, and taking things apart. It was that easy, old bolts etc. Had to take horn out to get to the hoses bracket etc. The L/H caliper had to be taken out as per instructions, and filled with fluid from behind in a proper order. Old brackets were reused and I found it a bit tricky to find the proper way to install them so they fit the new setup. The first bleeding was a failure, soft lever, because I had to take out L/H caliper out to fill the small pump with dot 4 behind it, so the air got into the caliper itself. Had to remove it, pump it till pistons fully came out, then push them back in and I was back in the game. Old caliper / piston seals did not break, thanks f...

    I proceeded to do the rear end , and I thought it would be easier ;-). Removing hoses was a bit of a nightmare. The pipe line double bracket under the battery completely seized under heat from the exhaust, so there was some fight. Then had to take R/H foot peg out for an easy access, then rear plastics off with a givi rack...So I could access delay valve and remove it,then reattach the battery earth with a different bolt, because original bolt held delay valve and it was too long. After removing the delay valve, I was left with metal pipes running from front end, under the tank, then to the delay valve, and it was curved, so could not take it out quick enough, so I cut it to pieces, because I knew I would never use it again. Put everything back, pump the rear caliper, starting from middle nipple, going then to outer nipple. Put all parts together etc and then tested it the next day.

    At the beginning the rear brake / pedal felt like a wooden floor, little movement but responsive and accurate. After about 1000km ( I wanted to write review after 1000km so it is more objective ) the pedal for rear brake feels better, so either I got used to it or caliper adapted to a new setup. I tested it in various conditions and situations, and it is not as easy to lock the rear wheel as other people say ( not on mine bike anyway ), you can use rear brake on corners now etc and you have to press hard enough to lock rear wheel. I am generally happy with rear brake now, different feeling than old one but when I brake I don't dive no more, I just slow down and rear drags nicely on bends.

    Front - it feels harder, not as spongy as it used to be, HOWEVER still a bit spongy. Front brakes work the same as before de-linking, but not as spongy and a bit more responsive. I did not drill middle nipple as per instructions, I took it out, pushed pistons back in and then screwed in the nipple. Since then middle pistons never came out. I was thinking of installing different calipers but I would have to change forks, so I will leave it. I will also not drill a canal to the middle piston, because I will have to change reservoir, and I do not want to do it.

    Track days , trail braking is now a whole different story, I can use brakes independently or together if I want. Question is: was it worth 130 euro and days work? Would I do it again? I am 70% for YES, I would do it again and it was worth it, because of different driving experience and can go a bit madder on the road / track.

    If you have any questions, and I know the answers, then I will be happy to help:)

    Don't crucify me for de-linking brakes ;-)I know it is a touchy topic here.
     

    Attached Files:

    Samuel likes this.
  2. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    More pictures. Don't mind all the dirt. Bike was recently stripped and cleaned properly so now is very clean and shinny :)
     

    Attached Files:

  3. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    Just comments opinion and fodder.. My geekness just jumping out. Never been a fan of that Hel kit. It disables the system, true, but you leave 4 pounds of unsprung hardware hanging in the breeze doing nothing hanging on the forks. And its still more complicated than needed where it could be simple. Thats a whole lotta work and cost for something that is still a compromise. You end up with a system that the master cylinders are not not proper sized, especially the rear.....
    Really for near the cost of the HEL kit, the Superhawk lowers/RC51 calipers and master cylinder could be done...

    I'm the original delink it foole.... at least 10 + years ago.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Samuel and OnlyVfr like this.
  4. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Very nice work. I know I have some dead weight hanging down, but my brakes did improve and I can use them independently. I was thinking of upgrading front calipers however I would have to change the forks...And I was just thinking of upgrading for hagon springs, in the end of the day I will have to take forks out so maybe I will think of upgrading them to a vtr forks or something. Thanks for your picture and opinion.
     
    mello dude likes this.
  5. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    If your rears are completely independent now, at least upgrade to a 14mm master cylinder. You could do that simple and cheap...
    Parts are any F4i/RC51/Superhawk and its a near bolt in...


    -> I hope some day to visit your fine country, I have ancestors from there.
     
    OnlyVfr likes this.
  6. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    We have some nice twisty roads here:) . I never thought of upgrading to a different master cylinder. So a master cylinder from f4i fits ok you say, what year? Does it matter? Btw , what is the reason for upgrading to 14mm ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2019
    mello dude likes this.
  7. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    Honda uses the same base casting for near all the rear master cylinders, anything in the early 2000s should do it. Double check the piston size.
    It will have 14mm cast into the side of the M/C. Chances are you will have to shorten the push rod, but thats about it.
    Also, you could reuse you new Hel rear lines as is.
    You could ebay it or I just decided to purchase a new 2002 RC51 M/C just to insure I wouldnt have to rebuild it.
    Again, VTR Firestorm, F4i, CBR600, RC51 all are 14mm.
     
    OnlyVfr likes this.
  8. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

    Country:
    Australia
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    Old Toongabbie, Australia
    Map
    I used a 2010 CBR250RR rear master, didn't even have to cut the rod.
    You've gone half way, why not go the whole hog mate, it will be much better.

    Eddies Corner 11-18Ms.jpg

    IMG_1579.JPG
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  9. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    OZ VFR - very nice bike and nice foot peg! Why to change rear master? It the one I have works fine? Unless it will be better feeling and brake operation?
    What forks did you use and what front calipers please?
     
  10. OZ VFR

    OZ VFR Member

    Country:
    Australia
    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Messages:
    1,162
    Likes Received:
    360
    Trophy Points:
    128
    Location:
    Old Toongabbie, Australia
    Map
    Thanks OnlyVFR.
    Fork lowers are from VTR1000.
    Front calipers from SP2/CBR929/CBR600RR (all the same), with CBR600RR front master (looks the same as stock VFR).
    I originally did the same as you to delink the brakes as I didn't like not having individual control (specially the rear) with the stock brakes.
    I found the stock master with the 2 pistons was a bit wooden and didn't offer enough feel.
    With the rear caliper internally drilled so all three pistons work together and the 14mm master you get a lot more feel and control of rear brake.
     
    mello dude likes this.
  11. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    YES!!! :Peace:
     
  12. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Thank you for your replies. I never drilled rear caliper. have two hoses attached to it running to master, and when I first took it out and pumped rear pedal , 3 pistons worked. Yes , it is a bit wooden feel, but not that bad. I will think of changing forks and rear master. Now I seen your footpegs and I want them too....

    You would not have a pictures how you drilled the calipers? I would drill them in the front...But I do not know where to drill.
     
  13. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    The stock OEM rear master cylinder piston is too big for the caliper piston area (3 together) to be an effective system, whether they are hooked together by 2 lines, drilled out, or a mini bridge line or however.

    That's why near all guys who build a separate system will change the rear to a 14mm master cylinder.
     
    OnlyVfr likes this.
  14. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

    Country:
    New Zealand
    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2013
    Messages:
    1,998
    Likes Received:
    276
    Trophy Points:
    98
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Map
    If you already have the two hoses from the rear caliper joined together at the master then you don't need to drill that caliper at all. But I would echo the advise above about getting a 14mm master.

    At the front I think the easiest delink route is to do as Oz has done, get some VTR1000F lowers (e.g. buy some bent forks and throw away the bent bits). You can re-use your VFR800 upper tubes and all the inner parts, or if the VTR1000F parts are usable, salvage the fork caps and dampers and gain adjustable rebound damping. Fork seals and bushings are interchangeable, and the VFR wheel/brakes/axle/spacers are all reused. Then you can find your preferred choice of 4-piston brakes, my opinion is that the best is a set of CBR954 calipers and early CBR600RR master.

    The only slightly tricky job is to come up with a mounting system for the front mudguard as the VTR1000 mounts don't work with the VFR guard, and a VTR guard is too narrow for the VFR fork spacing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2019
    Diving Pete, mello dude and OnlyVfr like this.
  15. mello dude

    mello dude Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Messages:
    3,595
    Likes Received:
    132
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Southwest Ohio
    Map
    That is my exact formula I did over 10 years ago, with the exception of using RC51 calipers and master cylinder. (The CBR954/RC51/F4i castings are all the same.)
     
    OnlyVfr likes this.
  16. Rio800

    Rio800 New Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2019
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Why did you do this? I guarantee you can't come up with a plausible reason other than wanting to do a ton of work for the sake of it....
     
  17. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    The best decision I have ever made , best mod. Independent brakes, no more diving if braking rear heavy (for fun), now I can drag rear wheel, excellent on track too, all advantages, I should have it done ages ago:)
     
    VFRIRL likes this.
  18. VFRIRL

    VFRIRL New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    10
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    Ireland
    Map
    I wouldn't delink, I wouldn't have a clue how to tackle the job anyway, but it's your bike and if that's your choice then good luck to you and well done,
    OZVFR that is a beautiful bike, I'd love to get a sargent seat or maybe a top sellerie one, their website is hard to navigate though. just got foot peg lowering blocks, trying to fit them will be at the limit of my mechanical abilities!!
     
    OnlyVfr likes this.
  19. NIBBLER

    NIBBLER New Member

    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2019
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Location:
    Somerset
    Map
    Hi there. I am new to this forum and it looks like there is loads of experienced people here. I have read all the interesting info on de linking the brakes. I have de linked my brakes previously. I retained the original callipers and master cylinders front and rear, hydraulically locking the mid fork leg m/c. I have junked all the original linked pipe work. However as mentioned by earlier by "OnlyVFR" the system is not much better than before, Apart from working independently, which was my primary goal, the
    rear has no feel and the front just doesn't bite.
    As recommended earlier in this thread I am looking to changed the front fork lowers with firestorm ones. However what I can't understand is why the preference to use callipers and master cylinders from other bikes rather than the Firestorm callipers and master cylinder especially as these are already matched and proven and obviously don't need to be ground to fit the firestorm fork lowers. I'll also be swapping out the rear M/C with a 14mm one as advised by "Mello Dude". Please can somebody advise if the Firestorm stoppers and M/c's are fit for the job.
     
  20. OnlyVfr

    OnlyVfr New Member

    Country:
    Ireland
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    96
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Hi,
    My front does bit, maybe rebuild you calipers? Rear needs 14mm, but I never replaced it, because I very rarely use rear. In relation to fork change, I passed on that and I will CNC a bracket from piece of aluminum so I can accommodate any brake calipers I want. I just recently sprayed and rebuilt forks, so bracket is my next project:)
     
Related Topics

Share This Page