84 'Ceptor FUEL INJECTED in the Works

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by 84VFR700F, Aug 4, 2010.

  1. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    For a 500cc bike you would use much smaller carbs.
     


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  2. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    That rocks pretty hard Donald!

    Definitely wouldn't work on the 500 with the stock frame and tank in that configuration. Would have to do some kind of a horizontal routing.

    I'd be curious if you looked at the firing sequence of each cylinder and chose to match up your manifolds for 1-2 and 3-4 vs. doing a 1-3 and 2-4? or just because it was easier for the look and application you were going for?
     


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  3. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    I did NOT chose the cylinders for manifold sharing at random. I looked at many other engines and the firing order was part of that equation.
    I chose the VW bug engine for my example since it has the same firing order and cylinder layout. 1-4-3-2 and we know that works. Many VW bugs use two -two barrel carbs. One on each side of the engine. sharing the manifold for cylinders 4 and 3 and 1 and 2.
    Only the HONDA VF1100 has a different firing order (1-2-3-4)
     


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  4. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    i just have to comment on that statement about non vacuum carbs stumbling.

    When set up right they do not stumble. Many races have been won with "conventional" carbs. They do not stumble. trust me. Do you think Mert Lawill would accept a bike that stumbles on accelerating?
     


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  5. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Interesting stuff! The 1-4-3-2 order makes sense but on the Kawi image above it looks like the carbs are feeding the 1-2 and 3-4 cylinders not 1-3 & 2-4 as Honda has set up...am I missing something?
     


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  6. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    Maybe we have a different definition of "stumble". I'm not familier with Mert Lawill but I'm sure he'd accept whatever was the best technology available at the time. The vacuum operated slider provides optimum fuel mixture for the appropriate RPM of the motor. On a cable slide, when going from idle to immediate WOT, the RPM's aren't high enough to draw the "correct" amount of fuel up thru the venturi.

    Yes, you're missing something. I'm not sure what you are refering to with "honda 1-3 & 2-4" but he shared manifold across from 1-2 and 3-4 so there's consistent air draw thru the carbs. You don't want intake valve overlap with two cylinders on the same carb. By going across 1-2, only one cylinder should be drawing air at a time creating consistent flow thru the venturi in the carbs. (as consistent as possible)
     


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  7. invisible cities

    invisible cities New Member

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    Got it, thanks!
     


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  8. GreyVF750F

    GreyVF750F Member

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    One would like to think so. In reality vac carbs work good for street use for low to mid rpms and small throttle openings are were they shine. For any kind of fast rpms/power they are slow. So they are not really optimum. Racing carbs don't use them. Once your motor starts to get in to it's power band it will/should accept wot. I've always had good results with mechanical carbs when properly setup. If anything, from idle to wot all at once might bring a small stumble at first opening. The fix is to come out of the hole with a little higher rpms. Both vac and mechanical can bog in the wrong rpm.
     


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  9. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    maybe I should say it this way.....

    My comment above would be my concern if I was trying to share carbs. He based it on a known working model. :thumbsup: I'm not surprised Donald would put some thought before action even if we don't always agree on the conclusion :biggrin:
     


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  10. tinkerinWstuff

    tinkerinWstuff Administrator Staff Member

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    I've never been able to experience both options side by side in order to say that vac is slow - but it's not hard to believe how that would be true.

    I always had trouble with the idle to WOT delay/stumble of cable sliders - so that's where my love of the vac slider comes from.
     


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  11. donald branscom

    donald branscom New Member

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    Mert Lawill has won 17 national championships on every kind of motorcycle. One mile dirt track to road racing. Google Mert Lawill.

    He designed one of the first suspensions for bicycles. He is also a machinist.
     


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