84 'Ceptor FUEL INJECTED in the Works

I'm sick of your shit Squirrelman. People like their 1st gens and working on them for all sorts of reasons. Nobody owns or modify's these bikes because they are at the pinnacle of performance and reliability. You took a dump on my chest my entire vf500f rebuild. You had done it before, and you continue to do it. When my project was said and done, I had made over $500 profit selling spare parts off on what you claimed would be a waste of money. Being up $500 and a vf500f with 6,800 miles seems like it worked out pretty well for me, and other peoples 1'st gens are working out for them too.

Leave this guy alone. I fully support him and other 1st gen owners on the forum. You have never offered me any input that was worth anything. You troll the 1st gen board looking for owners to poke at, and I'm sick of it. I don't appreciate anything you have to say, and I know other members in the 1st gen section agree with me. Stop heckling 1st gen owners.

 

The main assumption is that someone has a poorly running '84 VF and thinks he might have a carb problem, that maybe the carbs have been worked on without any improvement, and that his first thought is to convert to FI to solve his problem.

I doubt that anyone who had a sweet-running carbed VF would waste his time or money to eliminate the carbs.

 

OK, so put me on your "ignore" list........but i won't stop expressing my opinions.

 

Maybe we should all just shit on anyone that wants to do anything innovative with their 1st gen- no anything at all. Want to put in the oil mod to give better pressure to the heads? Screw it, buy a new bike. Want to put a new rear tire on- waste of rubber, get a 2010 model. Want to fill you 1st gen with gas? Not worth it, stuff a burning rag in the tank and let God and the remaining fumes do the rest.

 

Is it weird that I like V4 carburetors? They are really quite beautiful when you study them and when dialed in work quite well.

On this note, I have to agree with Squirrelman that one shouldn't jump ship on the V4 carburetors simply because they think they don't work well.

Again, I'm totally a fan of Yankee ingenuity and wish the OP much success with his conversion. I look forward to reading more about how this comes together.

 

No where in 84VFR700F's post did he state that his 84 was running poorly or that he had carb issues. He just said if his buddy's FI conversion worked out he would like to do it to his bike.

Is there something I missed here?

 

No, you're right on track. I may not have been clear in my writing.

I'm a fan of the V4 carb design and was simply making a point that they are pretty interesting pieces of engineering and that when dialed in work really well.

One footnote - I don't believe there is an actual FI system up an running - rather that the OP knows an engineer who is willing to take a go at designing one.

This said, I think an FI conversion is a very interesting project and look forward to reading more about this.

 

Ok, that's what I thought too. I think it would be an interesting project and the OP will most likely learn quite a bit from the experience!

Not to highjack here, but last night I just got my CBR954 running after it had been sidelined with a pretty severe oil burning issue. I checked it out and it had scored cylinder walls and pistons. I elected to get a CL motor and installed it. Second gear was out (wouldn't stay in gear) so I had to pull the engine again. Ended up cherry picking the best parts out of each motor and making it all work.

I have never been into a motorcycle engine/transmission before and needless to say I learned a lot about my bike by tinkering around with it's guts.

 

I can see lots of reasons for and against FI on a older bike. Personally I think it is a great idea for a project. There is a lot that would need to be fabricated and engineered, but the end result is a potentially sweet and unique bike. The biggest downside is that with the size of the motor and the age, without some other custom work to the engine, there most likely wont be any power gain from this. The best is that it will start easier in the cold, and could improve fuel mileage.

One other really good pooint is that the FI motor doesn't need as much maintenance for a winter storage. Just unhook the fuel line, hotwire the fuel pump and pump the tank dry! Next Spring, fill tank with 93 octane and fire her up! If you forget to drain the tank, you can still do it later and get away with it, unlike a carb setup that will be hating you for not draining and maintaining!

If there was a retrofit kit out right now, I would put FI on my 96 in a heartbeat. It's my opinion, and I'm sticking with it!

 

I grew up in North Dakota, there are a couple of months that are really bad for riding, not impossible, just really really cold like -20F for the HIGH temp! I suppose a person could put a piece of cardboard in front of the radiator, but you would still need to light yourself on fire just to stay warm!!

 

Good points on the pros/cons of an FI conversion. Thanks for the post.

 

Some of us in the colder climates, have to put our bikes away for the winter. Drain the carbs, fill the tank and use stabilizer so no condensation forms, fog the cylinders , pull the battery, soak all non plastic surfaces with wd-40 and coccoon with a cover and a couple good tarps. Unless you are going to paint, or do major repairs over the winter, when it can sit in your garage.

 

WHY did the manufacturers switch from carbs to FI ??

Main reason was to meet stricter emissions requirements, and the switch had nothing to do with better performance.

Another reason was economy cuz FI setup is cheaper than carbs and gives slightly better fuel mileage.

FI is not a cure for a bad-running old bike.

 

I think this is a neat project you guys are taking on. I'm sure you realize your not going to get more power from it. Properly tuned carbs will make as much or more power than FI. Where FI has got carbs beat is buy tune-ability. With the proper mapping and depending how it's set up with things like knock sensor, temp sensors and others gives it great flexibility. At the same time you may be pulling your hair out designing it. Still a neat learning project. It would also be easier putting a turbo on it with FI. That should be your next project........... zoom zoom:vtr2:

 

Good points in both posts #34 and #35.

I appreciate your taking time to write down your thoughts on the pros & cons of an FI conversion.

 

Yep, been done. 3 inexperienced guys working for about 6 months converting a '92 FZR600 to FI, in 1992, running M85 even. That was with 1992 computers and aftermarket '92 FI software. Motor ran great, took a bunch of time on a dyno to dial it in and lots of fabrication for the fuel system, injectors, intake, etc. But successful nonetheless. With today's aftermarket systems and a little engineering it shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. Looking forward to seeing some good results!

 

It is this simple.
Young guys are afraid of carbs and think they are too complicated.
They also are so used to sitting down with a computer to do everything by pushing a button instead of actually working on a real motorcycle.

Older guys know that it is simple to fix a carb, AND know the benefits of fuel injection. We just do not want to spend $3,000 dollars to make it happen.
And you better be a good machinist too.

Older guys know when something runs better by how it feels and the sound and plug readings where as the young guy only believes what a computer says.

When I go see a doctor and he or she spends all their time with their face stuck in the computer screen , I fire them and get a doctor who will actually talk to me and get to know me. They can check computer data after I leave.

 

Of coarse it can be done. It is just a matter of money.
But the newest fuel injection systems inject the fuel directly into the combustion chamber not the intake track. That takes some special machining. They are getting 65:1 fuel to air ratio's for cars.
Cars run extremely lean. That has got to shorten the life of the engine too.
So that is why they have variable valve timing and so forth to compensate at low speeds.

 

So V-Four carburetors are the cat's pajamas?