5th gen shutting off after hard braking

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Bercedes-Menz, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    This is a 98 so should have manual fast idle control, not the wax unit.


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  2. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    By the sounds of it you're on the right track definitely fuel related, something is making it lean more so when the fuel gets lower. I would get the pump and see if you can test it's pressure and flow rate. also the FPR. filters too. in fact I'd start there now that I say that.
     
  3. Lint

    Lint Member

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    Might as well replace the fuel filter too, since you're going to be elbow deep in it anyway.Also, I highly suggest you have your injectors professionally flow tested and cleaned.
     
  4. Bercedes-Menz

    Bercedes-Menz New Member

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    Well, I changed out the spark plugs, oil and filter, coolant, and air filter, and nothing has changed, unfortunately. What I did find was some oil on the base of the plugs. It didn't reach the threads, so I don't really know what's up with that. I swapped out the plugs, rode about 2 miles and checked back on the new ones, and they also have oil on the base.

    I filled up the tank with 93. There were 2 bars left on the gauge, but when I looked inside the tank, it was nearly empty. It doesn't shut off when hard braking now. When I was riding home after working on it, every once in a while I would smell burnt oil.

    I called up Honda Powersports, and they only do basic stuff like what I just did (fluids, plugs, etc.). I guess I have to send it over to someone else. From what I've read, oil on plugs can be catastrophic.

    But at least I've narrowed down the issues some more by doing the work I did. I have a fuel problem and probably an oil leak somewhere (gaskets?). The latter is probably what's causing the bogging down, or at least aiding it along with the fuel issue.
     
  5. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Where is the oil on the plugs, on the inside or the outside, if it is on the outside it has nothing to do with you problem
     
  6. Bercedes-Menz

    Bercedes-Menz New Member

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    The oil is on the inside between the washer and the threads.
     
  7. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    Is there any sign of oil anywhere near the electrode end?
     
  8. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Oil on the threads might just be a leak from the o-rings on the cam cover.


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  9. Bercedes-Menz

    Bercedes-Menz New Member

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    Nope, just near the base. I think there was a bit on the threads too. Should've taken a picture. But there was definitely none on the electrode end.

    Update: Here's a picture of the old plugs.

    IMG_20161025_215342_01.jpg
     
  10. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Yep, that's from the spark plug tube, it's pretty common.
     
  11. NormK

    NormK New Member

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    As Cadbury said nothing to do with the motor problems
     
  12. Bercedes-Menz

    Bercedes-Menz New Member

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    I have some good news. Turns out it was the fuel pump, and adding the slip on and air filter made it worse. The mechanic recommended a fuel pump that was $30 and offers more psi than OEM. Their rate is $85/hr, and they're also going to get a PCIII and tune the bike (they get discounts on PCs). The oil on spark plugs is a common problem, he said, and it's nothing major to worry about unless it's on the electrode, but he'll take a look at that too. He said that it's so bad that I shouldn't even be riding it as I could damage the engine with is getting such a low fuel amount, so I dropped it off with him to work on.

    Here's a dyno of how bad it's running right now:
    https://postimg.org/image/j4h2benyr/

    The sharp dips are when the bike stalled. The bottom graph is showing how much air it's getting vs. the fuel. It should be on the red dashed line, so... yeah. But boy did she sound good on that dyno. It's like a Nascar on two wheels.
     

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  13. RVFR

    RVFR Member

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    Good to know.. Nice that I was on the right track in thinking here, ya never know when said machine isn't underneath you. Now off to the races right? ;)
     
  14. Bercedes-Menz

    Bercedes-Menz New Member

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    Here is the after dyno:

    https://postimg.org/image/x4vs929kp/

    This is without Power Commander. It isn't needed as the air/fuel is pretty much bang on even with the K&N and slip on (Delkevic). He did some calculations to the end result as he was saying that his dyno uses a heavier shaft or something. But 106.5 sounds about right with slip on + aftermarket filter.

    She rides pretty well now, better than when I first got it. Extremely smooth.

    The culprit wasn't the pump, but the hosing. It was cracked in many places, causing the fuel to leak back into the tank. The 98-99 VFRs have a rubber u-shaped hose that leads to the fuel filter and some kind of return hose on the bottom of the pump. The u-shaped one had a long crack down the side, and the other one around the circumference. The 2000-2001 models have the fuel filter and the (now metal) u-shaped hose as one piece connecting to the pump, so you don't really have to worry about it cracking on you.

    I haven't heard much about the Kemso fuel pumps, but it seems to be a rebrand of the Aeromotive 345lph pump, possibly a cheaper knockoff. But I'll be sure to inform you guys if the pump gives me any problems in the future.

    Thanks again for the help everyone. Much appreciated.
     
  15. Sniper

    Sniper New Member

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    ^There's a lot of really useful info in a small package.

    I don't have a PC on my gen 5, 2nd ed.

    I have a Delkevic Header, with a straight thru muffler. I am always amazed how Honda got so much HP and TQ out of 780 cc's. Didn't have to re-jet, or do the PC. No valve timing trickery, for that matter, either.

    My 04 919 didn't need a PC, neither did my 06 CBR600RR. I moan and complain about Honda from time to time. It man o man, they can build engines, with almost perfect fuel injection.
     
  16. kennybobby

    kennybobby New Member

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    SAE J30 is the US standard for fuel and oil hoses, different sections cover various requirements and specs. You can easily gogglfind the pdf if you want to read the details.

    Low pressure fuel hose (crap) is used on lawn mowers, sae 30R7. Higher pressure and less leaky is 30R9. Diesel is 30R11, and the one you must use inside a fuel tank is 30R10, submersible with fuel resistant outer cover. Don't let those computer jockeys at autoshack sell you the wrong stuff or crappy hose, especially for fuel inerection. Also don't use vacuum tubing for fuel hose--a buddy did that and burned up his bike the first time he took it out for a ride.
     
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