2014 Honda VFR 800 (Red) Possible Paint Problem

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by baker5, Dec 27, 2014.

  1. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    Hi,
    I just took receipt of a red 2014 VFR 800. It has 1KM on it. Can anyone comment on the paint finish? Is it a one stage paint or two stage with clear coat? Are the fairings different than the tank. There was a small light scuff (haze mark) on the upper cowl that I noticed and hand buffed yesterday (terry cloth pad wetted, Mcguires ScatchX follow by their NXT wax) and after only two light passes noticed some red on the pad??? BTW I am very familiar with detailing and these products. I have contacted Honda and will be hearing from service on Monday to start a possible warranty claim.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Thanks,
     
  2. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I have looked mine over, it does not appear to have a clear coat, but finish is perfect.
     
  3. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    Thanks. How do you know there is no clear coat? BTW there were two other areas on bike; one on tank and other one on the fairing, where there were minor marks in clear. I dealt with them in the same manner and I did not see colour on the pad after a very light buff/wax. On the area I buffed and was referring to here in the original post, the paint also looked perfect after the buff/wax. I am confused by all this. The dealer was too and said they will have to go through Honda Canada to get a straight answer as to what is going on.
     
  4. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    With one KM it sounds like it was a demo bike that might have some minor repainting done on it. Paintwork on factory Hondas is robotic. The Meguirs you used is mild stuff and to burn through a factory applied clearcoat would take time. Not sure but where you will most find clearcoat on bikes is on the tanks. This is not mandatory but is a good idea for many reasons.

    My advice is not to go any further and hope the dealer is shooting straight. Some further searching on Google ect., might provide more specific information
     
  5. Arnzinator

    Arnzinator New Member

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    If your getting color on your towel then there is no clear coat. The only way you'll get color from clear coat is by burning through it & getting into the underlying layers of color. Which is highly unlikely given the products & method your using. I wouldn't be surprised if the tank is clear coated & the fairings are uncoated. When removing minor scratches from the fairings on 07 Suzuki the towels would have a little color on them. But not when buffing the tank. This was done by hand using either Mequairs Ultimate Compound or Swirl Remover with clean micro fiber towels. I wouldn't loose any sleep over this especially if the end result looks perfect.
     
  6. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    Someone may correct me, but I thought that the new paints and clearcoat were a one step process, except for finishes such as pearl. In my non expertise opinion, it does sound like you polished off some overspray. But I would want to know where it was painted and why. A bike can get scratches or minor scrapes when they are being put together by the shop. Shit happens. Then it is proper for them to get fixed before they are put on the showroom floor for sale. I don't think the dealer should feel obligated to offer this damage claim up front for something very small, but on the other hand, if asked, they should disclose.
     
  7. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I just tried small areas on tank and all sections of the plastic with Maquires Cleaner Polish and got no red anywhere. I do not know if it has been clear coated, interested to find out. Hopefully your cowl was not repainted, as it might not match after exposure to sunlight for a period of time.
     
  8. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Pearl is a base that is glazed to effect a "candy" color. A glaze is a transparent layer of color superimposed over another color.

    Pearl bases have been around for many years. Back in somebody's day they were a mix of nitrocellulose lacquer and herring scales.

    As tough as they are, current automotive paints are sometimes clear coated offering more protection from damage like fuel oopsies and chafing from tank bags.

    Paint and coatings in the automotive arena are layered. This included the initial sealer/primer coat and subsequent coats to achieve the desired result. ie there is no set way to "paint".

    In a recent post one contributor was using a two component paint that was formulated for marine use to paint his bike. With the right primer if even needed, a couple of coats of that should work just fine. Even marine grade enamels that are single component with the right primer and prep and applied with care work just fine too.

    Talking to painters aboot what is best is like talking to bikers aboot the best oil or tires.
     
  9. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    Guys I appreciate all the responses. A few comments based on these:
    1. The bike as mentioned only has 1 kilometer on it. It would not be a demo. From what I understood it was a crate bike. From time of uncrating, prep and delivery was a two week period;
    2. The area where I saw colour relative to the area on the cowl just around the bend by the VFR decal where I believe there was no colour on the pad - and the transition between the two areas looks pristine as if there is one consistent red finish. I know what burning through clear looks like and this is not the case as visually you would see it and secondly you need to rub for a very very long time with the Scratch X product to burn through. If one area relative to the other did not have clear would you not see this? I am starting to think that maybe what I brought up as mentioned in a prior post was some microscopic red overspray that came up in the paint process.
    3. It will be very interesting to see what Honda says - and I will let everyone know. Depending on their response I may ask they take a clear coat gage to the bike to determine clear coat thicknesses. I keep my bikes for a long time and frankly I need to be able to clean it with confidence without having to worry about compromising the paint finish. I bought this bike for it's versatility, durability and quality and this is part and parcel of a good tough paint finish.
     
  10. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    If you suspect overspray over clearcoat it should be fairly easy to remove with one of the Meguirs products that are abrasive. The best plan IMO is not to do anything until Honda gets a look at it. Make sure it's a real Honda rep and not some ringer the dealer dug up. Being a new bike (crated) if there is overspray the dealer and Honda should strand up for a new fairing piece. You paid for a new bike.

    What is a clearcoat gauge? A millage gauge maybe?
     
  11. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    The head of sales said he would be speaking to service in the morning and I should be getting a call back from them tomorrow. I agree speaking to the right individual will make a difference in how this gets handled. I don't know much about these gauges but I believe there is one to measure clear thickness on paint finishes on plastic.
     
  12. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    I didn't even know such a thing existed.
     
  13. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    Yes there is. I am not sure however if there is one unit that can measure clear thickness on metal substrates and plastic (combo unit). Typically I have seen these sold as individual gauges. They can very drastically in price from a few hundred to thousand dollars. Detailers use them extensively for paint correction work to understand how far they can go in the clear with wet sanding and buffing so not to burn through.
     
  14. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    Here is one type:

    http://www.elcometer.com/coating-thickness-gauge

    As to a specific model that is used to measure the thickness of a clearcoat one may or may not exist.

    The substrate and other applied paints and coatings would have to be baby butt smooth to effect a 100% accurate reading when measureing the thickness of a given coat.

    In some custom work, paints and coatings are applied that are not smooth by nature. Clearcoat is applied and sanded back using the same basic technique as is used in color sanding or using a filler primer on a raw substrate utilizing sacrificial guide coat for reference.
     
  15. baker5

    baker5 New Member

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    Thanks.

    I have reviewed Colour Rites colour codes for this bike and done a little more research on reds in general. In doing this too I sent Colour Rite a note to get some feedback on the composition of the paint formula and the situation for possible feedback. This appears to be a two stage paint. It is not clear however if the second stage is a tinted red clear which apparently is common with red colours. I am assuming the base is solid red. This maybe another possible explanation especially if the tint was heavier in the affected area. This is just another theory. I figure the more information I get the better for getting this sorted out.
     
  16. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    There ya go. Been on this earth 8 years longer than yours truly. But as neat as those are, I don't see myself getting one too soon. Neat tool though. Hell, I fix scratches with touch up paint pens from Canadian Tire.
     
  17. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    "Yours truly" is a valediction. The usage here might tend to signify duality.

    As much as you dump your bike you may want to get a gallon (imperial) of paint and a six inch (or metric) wall brush.

    Next time you're in that Canadian Tire outfit, buy a good pressure gauge. Those pencil types are crap after a dozen uses.

    Y'alls Truly,

    BB
     
  18. 34468 Randy

    34468 Randy Secret Insider

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    Now. Just what the hell is a pressure gauge?
     
  19. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

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    Tire Pressure gauge. Not one of these cheap things.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Badbilly

    Badbilly Official VFRWorld Troll Of The Year!

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    The pencil types are good for just a few accurate readings. The seal is an O ring that wears rather quickly.

    Kind of deluxe type here. Over fill the tire bleed off the excess with the valve. The hose allows access to the valve stem when the stem is sort of blocked by fenders ect.

    Mine does not glow in the dark. ;)

    http://www.tracksidetim.com/images/32307_tire_gauge_60.jpg
     
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