2006 VFR800 starter issue - [Fixed]

Intermittently bike would fail to start - fuel pump primed, then just relay click from front and louder relay click from under the seat when hitting starter switch. Then next time start would be seamless without any issues. Charged battery to make sure, same behavior. Failed to start more often. Noticed that if I shoved the bike forward or backwords, dropped clutch, then immediatly pull clutch and hit starter, bike would start. Odd, but it worked. Then that stopped as well. Now, that just leaves the start motor sounding like a sick dog. No longer starts.

I am seeing 12.3V across battery terms, and 12.3V across the top two metal leads on the green relay box under the seat. When pushing start switch, the voltage between two metal leads on that green relay box goes to 0 (zero), when releasing start switch, the relay clicks again, however voltage appears to remain at 0 (zero) between the two leads at the top. Not sure if this is expected?

Any thoughts on what's happening?

Thanks!!!

 

How old is your battery? It may be worth getting it tested. Typically when starting my 2006 I may briefly see 10v whilst the starter is firing the bike up - but 0volts sound ominously like you are about to be the latest 6th gen owner to find a fried stator or dead RR.

http://vfrworld.com/threads/how-to-fix-common-regulator-stator-failures.39277/

The above thread started with 5th gens but the same issues affect 6th gen models too. The main test to carry out are described in post #9 but do the test twice - once with the bike cold and then after a 20 minutes ride by which time the electrical system will be good and hot. Components may test fine when cold but insulation on stator windings or diodes in the RR may fail as it heats up and instead of charging the battery a short may start rapidly draining the battery.

 

Battery is 2.5 year old, Lithium Iron.

The 0V when hitting the started is expected as far as I understand, since the relay puts the two connectors into connected mode - so there would be 0V across. I was just wondering why it stayed at 0V after. Of course I can't remember if battery stayed at 12.3V or not after... will check again tomorrow.

I took off the side and under fairing, found the starter, and checked that it does have continuity beep between the cable nut and the battery + terminal when starter button is held. So looks like the relay(s) are working.

Once I get it started I can do these tests.

I did notice that cable in the picture is a bit charred right at the 30A main fuse (not the one on the starter relay, but the one next to it), and it does get on the hotter side with the key in on position. maybe I need to replace the charred part? But disconnecting that connection just turns off the lights/fuel injection/other stuff, the starter doesn't appear to be affected by that connection.

Thanks!

 

U gotta fix that connection !

 

Update: I disconnected my battery, then took car battery, and connected it direct to starter + terminal to the nut where the wire attaches, and - terminal to a bolt that holds starter body in place. Nothing happens, does this mean bad starter motor? Or do I need other parts of the motorcycle "active" for the starter motor to do something when powered directly? Is the next step to buy the 500$ starter assembly?

 

Yep, bad starter. There are rebuild kits available or pick up a used one from ebay.

 

The starter system wiring diagram, is shown in section 19 of the 6th Gen Manual. See above extract.

Assuming you have connected the external battery directly to the +feed to the motor - then clearly you have created a direct feed to the motor windings which should be immediately energised. I hope you made sure the bike was out of gear before trying that out!

If that does not make the starter turn over, then the starter is faulty and needs repair or replacement.

That in turn seems strange as I do not recall starter motor failures as common issue on 6th Gens. Has the bike been used for loads of very short trips?

If nothing else, it sounds like you have located the problem even if your wallet is going to take a bash.



SkiMad

 

Thanks! That is great diagram to have!

Yea, it was direct connection, bike was in neutral. Measured normal voltage across, but 0 current. Yea, lots of small trips, also original start switch went faulty and couple times triggered starter while I was driving a year ago. May have contributed to starter death, but not sure? I replaced that grip piece - the lights cable was broken off in there as well, and also discovered that one of the mechanics neglected to add the return throttle cable at some point heh. I guess it's not strictly needed, but I bought and installed one anyway.

For starter I bought this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BI74XHE
I figure it if breaks within a year, it's got warranty, if later, well.. 67$...

I also ordered the VFRness to fix the cable going to Main Fuse B that heats up at fuse leg.

Are there any gotchas to watch out for while replacing these?

 

Is there a trick at getting the starer put back in? I can insert it back in, but not all the way, there is like quarter of an inch or maybe a little more that it won't get fully in, so the two bolt holes won't line up. (both old and new aftermarket exhibit this behavior). I don't know if it is getting stuck on the gear part, or the rubber o-ring or what... so I am afraid to use the hammer - don't want to destroy the gear stuff...

 

Ok, got it back in - basically applied constant pressure and wiggled it around, and it fit back in all the way.

Issue fixed. The new starter works like a champ, though sounds a bit higher pitch than OEM - doesn't really matter to me.

VFRness installed, and took care of the overheating cable by Main B Fuse.

Took the bike out for couple hours and multiple stops, no issues.

Thanks everyone for suggestions and help!