2005 vfr low beam burnt out

Discussion in '6th Generation 2002-2013' started by thatedge, Dec 12, 2021.

  1. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Sorry but you are not being specific! There are two 20amp Fuses in the fuse box. Fuse D for the Fan Motor and Fuse F is the Headlights. (According to the 6gen wiring diagrams I have)!

    You cannot have ANY headlights operable with the Headlight 20amp Fuse Removed.

    Be absolutely sure you are removing the correct fuse!
     
  2. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    With known good globes fitted and the sockets fitted to the globes. Clip or temporarily fixed your Black meter lead to the battery Negative terminal.
    1. With the Red meter lead probe the White/Black wire at the back of both Low Beam sockets, Ignition to On. Do you measure 12v? If YES go to step 2.
    - If you ONLY measure 12v on that wire when the globe is NOT connected, then you have discovered a voltage drop situation most likely caused by a bad connection somewhere between the globe socket, Low Beam Relay or the 18p Blue connector located behind the Left side fairing. If you don't measure 12v either globe connected or not, then you need to trace the White/Black wire back to the Low Beam relay, through the relay then through the 18p Blue connector.

    2. If YES your 12v supply is good. Now move the Red meter lead to probe the Green Ground wire. Do you measure Zero Volts? If Yes then your Ground is good.
    - If NO then you have established a faulty Ground, you should NOT measure a voltage on a Ground wire with respect to the
    battery Negative.
    If 1 and 2 check out OK then there is no reason why your Low Beams should not illuminate, unless there was an issue with both globes OR the globe sockets.

    You cannot electrically damage your new globes UNLESS you run the engine AND you have a faulty charging system that is overvolting. This has the effect of boiling your battery, blowing globes and in the worst case scenario, destroying your ECM.

    Hopefully the drawing attached may help. Good Luck!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
  3. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    With the flick of the high beam switch the high beam worked with either 20 A fuse removed. The label on the fuse holder says the headlight 20A fuse is the one closest to the front of the motorcycle so that's the one I've pulled.
     
  4. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Thank you for the clear directions ... I will try after work tonight and let you know how I make out.
     
  5. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    I got 0 V on the white with globes in and 12 V with them out.

    I have started to trace it back toward the low beam relay. I will keep you posted.
     
  6. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Well done, at last you have something to work with and a reason why your lights don't work!

    You have discovered a classic Voltage Drop situation! This will most likely be caused by a bad connection somewhere along the power feed for the White/Black wire which goes back to the Low Beam Relay. As mentioned, the weakest link in the Headllght wiring is the 18p Blue connector.
    Using drawing previously supplied, follow that voltage loss back to the relay, then the Black/Red wire from the relay back through the 18p Blue connector where the wire will end up at your Headlight Fuse. Probing each point back towards the Headlight Fuse you should find the point where the voltage jumps from you near zero back to 12v it's at that junction you've found the bad connection.

    Good Luck. Keep us posted.

    It's completely strange and not correct that you can have any headlight operation with the Headlight Fuse Removed!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  7. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    I'll have to take a video showing me taking the fuse out and still getting high beam with the flick of the switch.

    Definitely makes no sense to me.
     
  8. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Suggest you have your hi beams On, then one by one pull then reinsert each fuse to identify what fuse (if any) is powering these lights! Someone has messed with the wiring! Apart from your Lo Beam issues you need to sort out why this is happening!

    Every wiring diagram I have for 4th, 5th and 6gen's shows that with the Headlight Fuse Removed you cannot operate Hi OR Lo beams! The main lighting power to both relays is removed.
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2022
  9. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Hello,

    This is a 2005 that I took, new, out of the shipping crate in the spring of the 2007 and have been the only owner. When I first got the motorcycle it lost power unexpectedly about 3 months after I started riding it. The dealer said the technician took everything apart and checked the wiring harness from head to tail. The motorcycle has been flawless since ... I do an oil change before winter, new batteries as required, a new chain, one previous set of low beam bulbs and at least two sets of new tires. Excepting putting heated oxford grips and an outlet for my heated vest, the motorcycle is electrically stock; both electrical items mentioned are powered directly from the battery terminal and have worked flawlessly for over 10 years.

    I will have a look at the wiring from low beam to relay and then over to the left side as was suggested but outside of that I believe it might be as simple as the hi\low beam switch is buggered.

    One way or another the motorcycle will be back together again this weekend so I can ride until the fall at which time I will strip it all down again in the garage and do a proper check on the wiring from head to tail myself.

    I am grateful for all the help forum members have offered and especially for the wiring diagram which I didn't have before.

    Cheers!

    Lee
     
  10. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Hi Lee.
    Well, I gave it my best shot and a fair amount of time to help you get your Lo Beams working before your trip.

    I still believe your fault is a simple one and should have been sorted long by now, it just required a bit more persistence in a logical, fault finding manner.
    Fortunately, you have at least discovered that the 12v power for the Lo Beams disappears WHEN the globes are connected meaning a poor/high resistance connection somewhere on the White/Black wire through to the Black/Red wire, AND, the high failure item for that is the Blue 18P connector as mentioned. (If it's not the Blue Connector then the Lo Beam Relay socket/connections need a close inspection for good connectivity to the relay itself. A simple shorting link on the White/Black to Black/Red wire of the relay base would determine this).

    Why do you believe "it might be as simple as the hi/low beam switch buggered" ? Are you just guessing??
    That might be that case if your Hi Beams are not working BUT it has nothing to do with your Lo Beams! Have a look at the drawing supplied and you should see this, there is no wire connected to the Lo terminal of the dimmer switch. Happy to explain further if you don't understand the diagram or how the Headlights are wired and controlled.

    Your Lo Beams are meant to be ON from the moment you turn ON the Ignition, (Is this correct for your bike? OR are your Lo Beams switchable On/Off? Not sure if some 6gen versions have that ability) The Lo Beam Relay is powered ON directly and does NOT rely on the Dimmer Switch. ONLY Hi Beam is switchable via the dimmer switch.

    The ONLY time ALL lights will switch OFF is when you press the Starter Switch.

    If you cannot turn your Hi Beams to OFF or On then Yes you could have a Dimmer Switch problem? If you can turn the Hi Beams On and Off via the switch then it's working correctly!

    Good Luck, look forward to eventually hearing what your Lo Beam issue is.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
  11. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Left field thought - I recall some pre-2006 6th Gens had a wiring loom recall. It only affected North American market models - so you may want to ask the dealer if there is a wiring loom recall relevant for your VFR.
     
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  12. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    UPDATE...Thanks to skimad4x4's memory jogger, I had a good look at the Honda Service Bulletin for the front wiring harness modification.

    Lee, it appears your bike may have been modified as per the attached diagram, and explains why your Hi Beams are NOT affected by the Headlight Fuse F 20amp. See attached Service Bulletin, and wiring diagram screenshot, sorry for the poor picture quality.

    Here's a summary of the modification.
    - Headlight Fuse F 20amp is now Only for Lo Beam power.
    - A new additional 20amp Fuse is located somewhere in the front cowl wiring and is for Hi Beam power. The fuse has a Black/Yellow wire feeding the Hi Beam Relay switched globe power, and a Red/White wire that goes directly back to the Regulator Rectifier 12v output wires.
    - The old Ground wire through the 18p Blue connector now terminates at the connector, no longer feeding the front lights etc.
    - Two new Grounds G1 and G2 have been installed that share the electrical loads, and go directly back to the Regulator Rectifier Ground wires.

    So, if your bike has been modified per above. Ignore the issue with the Headlight Fuse not removing power from your Hi Beams when pulled.
    AND this further means your Lo Beam voltage loss is most likley at the Blue 18P connector for the Black/Red wire, so check this for a burnt or hi resistance connection, a simple permanent fix would be to cut the Black/Red wires at both sides as close to the blue connector, then join the two together, either solder and sleeve or some form of inline splice.
     

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    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
  13. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Wow ... thanks for the new info.

    I will follow your recommended troubleshooting topics
    Thank you for trying to help out and for the information you provided. The pictures are quite helpful.

    My motorcycle was not covered in the recall even though I protested profusely that it should be ... that's how I got the dealer to look at the wiring from stem to stern as mentioned before.

    As I was fiddling with the blue 18p and then the wiring harness on the right and side of the bike the low beam came on ... not sure what caused it to come on. When I pulled the headlight fuse the low beam went out but no change with the hi beam when I flicked the high beam switch.

    As quickly as it started working, the low beam stopped working again.

    The main ground (nest of grounding wires under the left side area of the tank) was like new,

    I ran out of steam after working all day so I will have a go at it again for an hour tomorrow after work ... I lack patience when I get tired and end up breaking things so best to have another go tomorrow. Hopefully my shift will be relatively quiet so I have some energy to troubleshoot. If I have time while at work tomorrow I will read your post closely and also read the documents you provided.

    The loss of power and headlight again suggests this motorcycle should have been covered under warranty recall despite not matching the VIN's outlined in the recall. That power loss and dropping the motorcycle on my leg is coming back to me now ... I will not ride it until I figure out where the short is. I will pop open the blue 18p tomorrow and see if there are burnt wires in there.

    Again, thanks for the information provided; I am a picture guy so the pictures are most helpful.

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2022
  14. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Here is a picture of the blue 18p. To my untrained eye nothing looks out of the ordinary. 20220813_190123.jpg
     
  15. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    So where is the other end? No point in just looking, and at only one side! Check the pin and socket for the Black/Red wire.

    Make sure you measure 12v with everything connected, Ignition to On, at the back of the blue connector on both sides for that wire. If you only measure 12v on the incoming side and not the other side you have found the bad connection.

    Are you able to follow this Black/Red wire on the wiring diagram from the Headlight Fuse to the Blue connector to the socket of the Lo beam relay, through the relay to the White/Black wire to your Lo beam lights. Do You Follow This...?
    You are loosing voltage somewhere along that line Take Voltage Measurments along the points to locate where the voltage disappears. Make sure your globes are fitted and ignition to on.
    So much info has already been supplied!
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2022
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  16. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Working 7th day in a row so don't have a much time as others. Not sure if my question was answered but thanks anyway.
     
  17. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    You must be joking!
    Take your bike to an auto electrician or someone who has good electrical knowledge. Show them all the info provided. Your lights will be fixed in 10 minutes.!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
  18. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    You know what ... thanks for the information provided but you don't have to be an ass.

    If it is a choice between taking extra shifts as a paramedic and getting my bike on the road; taking the shifts to make sure residents in my community have an ambulance wins every time.
     
  19. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Lee.
    You have my absolute respect for the Fantastic work you do as a Paramedic, a wonderful career. I also understand what shift work is like. I did 36 years of rotating shifts and found that night shifts were a killer for me.

    I am NOT being an "ass" by any stretch of the imagination, I have dedicated a lot of time and effort in trying to help you sort your lighting issue. I feel frustrated in that I can't offer you any further information, as it's already all out there. I'm sure if I had your bike at hand I could have it sorted in no time, only because I've been involved in electrics for around 50 years!

    I have come to the conclusion that you are not grasping the testing/diagnosing or an understanding of basic electrics or the wiring diagram. It's NO fault of your own, it is just a fact that electrics are not your area of expertise.
    I can't tell you the number of times I've been led up the garden path by comments like "Fuses looks good, relays look good, wiring looks good, or Grounds look good" these comments prove Nothing without electrical measurements!

    I trust you can understand where I'm coming from, and hope your lighting problem is sorted ASAP for you, either by you with the info provided OR anyone with a better understanding of electrics.
    Kind Regards.
    Grum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2022
  20. thatedge

    thatedge New Member

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    Thanks. I'm tired and a bit short.

    I appreciate the time spent on the info provided; I just run out of steam by the end of the day.

    Although I have done post secondary electrical stuff I don't use it often so I tend to lose it quickly.

    I was really just asking if the blue connector exhibited the arcing issue identified in the recall and by others; I did not see an arcing issue and wanted to make sure I was not missing anything before moving forward. And, by the time I got the fairing off and got to the blue connector and got some household stuff done in time for my shift this morning, I was beat so I didn't put a multi meter on anything.
     
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