1994 RVF400R Build Project

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by NorcalBoy, Nov 7, 2018.

  1. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Very cool stuff!! Something about a bench covered in Honda bags.
    Merry X-mas!
     
  2. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    are you doing a pre mod dyno for baseline?
     
  3. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    I have no idea what I'm going to get from Moto2 Imports, I just know that Speedwerks is doing the work to install the airbox and the exhaust and do a full service, valves, carb clean, everything. At this point I'm a little miffed about the entire process, they have been painfully slow, and not really all that forthcoming with updates as to it's status. if I ever bought another bike from them, I would tell them to not lay a finger on it and just ship it to me as is. For what they are doing, I could have had the entire bike built by now. Miffed is probably putting it nicely. But I really have been trying not to slag them in a public setting. Tim, the owner of Moto 2, is a super nice guy and is a straight shooter, but he doesn't do the work. I don't think it would be fair to him at all, as I bought the bike after it had just arrived from Tokyo and they hadn't even started looking at it yet.

    Basically, I don't trust anybody I can't talk to face to face, or have worked with in the past. I know Speedwerks has a stellar reputation, but they aren't my people and I'm not talking to them directly. As soon as it gets here, it's going to my guy and we are gonna see what's up with it on his dyno. I want to be there, so I can see where it is with my own two eyes. I am saving up the money to have my engine guy in the Bay Area perform his magic on some new pistons and the full monty on the heads. Haven't decided yet about the crank. I need a solid baseline before that goes down.

    A full superbike spec engine, crank, rods, cams, all new valves, guides, springs and retainers, pistons, rings, combustion chamber reshaping and the port and polishing of both heads is around 6,000+ USD. The heads are the big money item at $3200, due to the amount of labor that goes into the porting, polishing, combustion chamber reshaping, and 5 angle valve job with new seats, parts, and surface treatments and coatings involved. The engine has to be fully measured to determine the clearances on the cam gear assembly to see how much clearance is available for decking the head, or using a custom thinner head gasket to boost the compression. It has to be able to live happily on premium pump gas, it may end up that the head can't be decked at all, but that all has to be determined by measuring everything.

    So the short answer, ROFL, is I hope to get some dyno numbers from Speedwerks, but not sure I will. So that means the baseline dyno numbers will have to include the high volume carbon Tyga airbox, the Tyga dual can shotgun exhaust, the filter, and the rejetting for those items. Not much I can do about it now.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  4. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Been going through some gyrations today. Wanted a titanium axle for the bike, as every other piece of hardware on the front end was ti, except for the spindle, which isn't available anywhere, at any price. Contacted an old machinist friend in Maine who did up some bits for my supermoto build and asked him, very nicely, if he could spin one up for me. Ti isn't the easiest material to work with, especially if it gets hot. It takes an experienced machinist to do it correctly. He said sure he could do it, send him the measurements....ah OK...don't have the bike yet and I certainly didn't want to tear it apart as soon as it got here. So the search began....

    I tried to buy a new OEM axle, no bueno, out of production, not available..nowhere, no how. Hmmmm, did a little digging and found that the part number cross referenced to a few US machines from the same time frame, mid 90's. It came on the CBR900RR, and of all things, the GL1800 GoldWing. Did a search, and lo and behold, found a used spindle on Amazon in great condition for $15.00, rofl. So, as soon as it gets here, I'm going to overnight it to my friend and he's gonna spin me up a ti front spindle, no idea on cost, but that really doesn't matter at this point :deadhorse: Hope to have something to show here in 2-3 weeks. The last ones he did were absolute jewelry, so I couldn't NOT do it. anxious to see how it goes.
     
  5. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Thank you, Captain 80's. I hope that and your family had a great Christmas!
     
  6. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    [​IMG]

    Some new carbon bits arrived recently from Tyga Performance. Received the carbon front fender, air ducts, and the front tank cover piece that the ducts tie into. With the finish inner cowl and these pieces, the look should be pretty decent and shave a little bit more weight off. I also have a carbon dash surround, gauge bezel covers, and the chain guard in carbon.

    [​IMG]

    I also received a full set of ti side fairing, front fender, and rear cowl mounting bolts and some ti wheel spacers for the front from Titan Classics in the UK. The quality of the bits is really decent. I didn't want to use the ProBolt hardware, as they come with a plastic sleeve that isn't captive and they get crushed and are generally a pain in the ass, instead of having the correct machining like the stock stuff. The Titan parts are machined as exact replicas of the stock hardware. With the ti front spindle that's coming, that should be every piece of hardware on the front end that could be replaced with ti being finalized.

    I'm waiting for the post lady to arrive today, as I ordered all of the ti bolts to replace the steel bits for the reverse damper mounting kit in Black DLC ti from ProBolt. I'll try to get around to posting up a shot of them when I see them. I'm also waiting on an order from David Silver Spares. I ordered all of the rubber fairing grommets and hardware to replace all of the grommets and mounting pieces for the fairings and the cowls. Also had to order a breather cover gasket for when the valve and breather covers get vapor blasted and recoated.

    Need to order the front and rear stands, once the machine is shipped and on it's way. But that's a story for another day.......

    Tyga Performance Thailand
    Titan Classics UK
     
  7. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    [​IMG]

    An unexpected shipment came with the Probolt order. I ordered carbon heel guards from Tyga Performance for the rear sets and they showed up today. I also had included the rear set mounting bolts in the last order from ProBolt, so those were also in the tiny shipment. Black DLC Ti tapered socket head bolts, every little bit of weight shaved, ROFL.

    [​IMG]

    Also in the shipment from ProBolt, I replaced all the mounting hardware for the steering damper in black DLC ti tapered socket head bolts. Add some weight, take some away, I guess. But the damper is a handy item on bumpy or grooved roads, and they also help if you start jacking up the rear and raising the fork tubes to get the optimum geometry. So I always look the other way when it comes to adding them. They are worth it.

    ProBolt USA
    Tyga Performance Thailand
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  8. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    sure going to be a fancy bit of kit you will have there, you may frighten yourself when it is finished how much it has cost you!!,looking great though
     
  9. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    [​IMG]

    There won't be any surprises, keep a file of printed receipts and I have a spreadsheet for every single piece, the unit cost, it's OEM part number if it has one, which parts fiche page it is located on, and what number it is on that fiche page, down to the last washer. It would be impossible to keep track of where all the parts, bolts, nuts, and washers go if ya don't. It would take longer to sort out the hardware than it would be to complete the project. :Frusty:

    It's mind boggling to think that a single MotoGP machine costs 2.5 MILLION USD and the typical 2 rider team has 4 of them, plus spares. I have a hard time fathoming what really goes into the highest end race machines.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2018
  10. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Now that's a smart way of doing it. I may copy it... lol
     
  11. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    It's necessary to keep track. I get going on the internet and order so much stuff at once, that I can easily space out and forget what I've ordered. With past projects, I have ordered duplicates of a lot of hardware, which adds to the cost for no good reason. When one bolt can easily cost over 10 USD, it's not very cost effective to just space out and order stuff you won't use. I am basically building a machine out of parts off of a parts fiche, as I don't have the actual bike to bolt everything onto when it arrives. It always takes a long time to get everything together, you can only do so much before you have to wait for the next bit of funny money to come available. The goal is to have everything and tear it down only once or twice to finish it. They always take longer than you estimate.
     
  12. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    [​IMG]

    Some new parts arrived from David Silver Spares, the last few seals and circlips for rebuilding the eccentric, a breather gasket and hose clips for when the valve covers get powdercoated, and every piece of OEM hardware and bits to redo all of the fairing and cowl mounting. I have new fairings and cowls coming on the machines, but I don't know if they included all of the padding and stuff that goes on the inside, I seriously doubt it...

    [​IMG]

    Also got a shipment from ProBolt, DLC coated ti race spec bolts for the water pump, shifter, and countershaft covers, which are also getting powdercoated in either, the HRC white or HRC tan color, haven't decided yet. I have an order in to David Silver Spares for all of the gaskets, dowel pins, o-rings, and seals for the covers, and the clutch lifter. It takes at least three weeks to get anything, as it all has to come from the UK. I have all of the gaskets and seals in hand for the alt and right side engine covers, which are also getting powdercoated, but I still need to order the ti bolts for them, kind of waiting on the order, as I am slowly adding the last few pieces of hardware to finish it off, and I have one more order of OEM stuff from DSS UK to refurbish the subframe and inner fender mounting bits.

    Got some disappointing news yesterday, the bike will be completely finished this week, but getting it shipped is going to put another delay into the program. I'm going with HaulBikes for the shipping, but it will be the first week of February before it is scheduled to be here. There were no other options to get it safely from the east coast to AZ any sooner, plus I trust HaulBikes to get it to my front door in perfect condition, I'm not taking any chances. The shipping was reasonable, $576, and that includes $15,000 worth of insurance.

    I have a few more things coming, so I will continue to update as they arrive.
     
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  13. RC46-SP2

    RC46-SP2 New Member

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    That thing will be fantastic when finished! Really like the attention to detail going on there. What do you hope to achieve out of the bike in terms of:

    1) Power/torque over standard, and

    2) Weight reduction over standard, given all the TI and CF stuff you're putting into it?

    Or is it just "put the best of everything into it, and see what you end up with"? (Which would have to better than stock anyway, on all counts).
     
  14. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Thanks! I'm hoping that it turns out decent. My earlier 800 project worked out decent.

    For the weight saving part, I'm looking around for a place that can accurately measure the weight in the configuration that it arrives in. I won't get the complete picture, as there have been some things changed already that will effect the number from stock, like the exhaust, carbon airbox, and the 520 chain conversion. So I won't have a bone stock baseline, but it will be close enough for the girls I date. The only thing I can use for a stock baseline would be the Honda provided number, which is 363 pounds (Dry), converted from the metric number of 165 kg's. I was able to take a stock 6g 800 and get the weight down to just a hair under 480 pounds, which was a decent reduction. Basically, my hope is to strip about 25 pounds, or so, off of it.

    As far as the power output side of it, I really won't know until I can have my folks put it on the dyno and get some numbers. Again, I won't have a stock baseline to start with, due to the changes being made, before I receive it. I went with the Tyga Dual Shotgun carbon can system, because that system made the best HP of any of their systems...prolly why it costs a premium. I have a Tyga provided dyno chart of the exhaust:
    [​IMG]

    This was representative of the tested machine's chart, provided to me by Tyga. I have been talking to my engine builder, who also did my 800, and he has told me that he can boost the power to 75 reliable, dynojet, horsepower, on pump gas, with the same modifications that were done to the 800 heads, i.e., porting and polishing, combustion chamber reshaping, titanium valves, stiffer valve springs, thermal coatings, heat control by cryo treating the heads and valve train, and the use of custom 30% larger rads, (like the HRC kit rads) yada, yada. Tyga said that the use of the higher volume carbon airbox lid and rejetting, also yields another gain, above the numbers shown in the chart. The programmable ignition will also help, but to what extent, remains to be tested and confirmed.

    I will provide some better data, when I have the chance to get it generated, LOL
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  15. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    I am suprised that you have to order so much stuff from the UK, I assumed that there would be lots of parts available in the USA considering the size of the market but having read lots of magazine articles there has been a huge amount of American market Japanese and European bikes (and cars) shipped back to Europe, my father in law restored an Austin Healey 100/4 that returned back from the US as bit of a wreck, converted it from LHD to RHD a lovely thing, there seems to be a lot of old American pickups over here as well considering the crap exchange rate for bringing stuff in some people seem to have money to spend
     
  16. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    The market for 400's in the US is Tiny.

    Something about 'there ain't no substitute for cubes' springs to mind...
     
  17. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    I suppose so , never really thought about it really
     
  18. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    The bike was never sold in the US. All of the VFR and RVF 400's in the US are grey market imports. Not a common machine and parts are non existent here. I do business with David Silver Spares USA or CMSNL out of the Netherlands, for OEM bits, but all the parts come from the UK or mainland Europe. The Japanese have parts for them, but the language barrier isn't easy to overcome. Rick Oliver and Matt at David Silver Spares are my "go to" folks for information on parts. For custom fabrication and precision machining, I have a very good friend in Maine that is a wizard, we met at the Supermoto Junkie website during that build. He is working on the first RVF bits for Diving Pete and I right now. Diving Pete is a very solid cat, knows his VFR and RVF stuff, and is just an all around ace of a guy, as well as being a member here.

    There are a couple folks in the US on the setup and technical side, my secret sauce engine builder Patrick, and Jennifer Bomme, the owner of Werkstatt SF. Jennifer has raced VFR 400's extensively and is a world class mechanic. However, I haven't spoken with her in a very long time. I won't deal with G-Force, I won't explain why. I do keep in mind that my experiences can be a lot different than somebody else's. Dave Moss, Formerly of Catalyst Reaction, but now of Dave Moss Tuning, has raced and won AFM Championships with them here, but I haven't reached out to him yet. I'm about to start working with a new tuner here in AZ, the man is the former crew chief from Aaron Yates WSBK effort back in the day, highly respected engine builder and tuner who now has a small shop in my town, he has the dyno and the skills to use it correctly. Nils from Restocycle (a member here) turned me on to him. Moving from the SF Bay Area to Southern AZ, it has taken some time to find the "right" people.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
  19. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    you must lots of great weather for riding in Arizona,I am a fair weather rider as just do not like getting the bike all dirty and crappy just to have a ride, probably my own worst enemy really as I spend more time cleaning tinkering with it than riding it I reckon but each to their own and all that
     
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  20. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    Have quite a few things going on with this build right now, but thought I would update a few things for the hell of it, and to publicly thank a great member from here.

    [​IMG]

    Due to the weird mixing of hex and socket cap bolts in the linkage, it took a little work to track down ti bolts that would work in place of some of the long socket cap bolts that couldn't be located.........

    Dirk at Mettec in Carson City, NV to the rescue. Dirk was able to go through his old stock and locate hex flange bolts that would replace the freakishly long M10x130x1.25 and M10x100x1.25 bolts. The issue with these, is that they slot inside the swingarm casting, so the max flange diameter could be no greater than 16mm, which is the OEM size of the socket cap bolt heads, plus, the hex had to be small enough to get a socket on it to hold it while tightening the opposing nut. These hex flange bolts have a flange size of exactly 16mm, with a 12mm hex, and a craftsman 1/4" drive 12mm socket is exactly the same O.D. as the flange...16mm. Boom! Fixt! These are the ti bolts that will be used, with the ProBolt DLC coated bi-hex metal lock nuts to complete the linkage mounting. I have all new OEM bushings, bearings, and seals, for the linkage and they will get vapor blasted and PC'd clear and rebuilt. One thing down.

    [​IMG]

    Dirk was also able to supply the correctly sized M14 washer for the Titan Classics ti swingarm pinch bolt and I was able to locate a custom ti shift rod for the Tyga rear sets also. I now have every single fastener in ti for the complete swingarm assembly and the entire rear caliper, including the caliper pistons, minus the castings. I have a complete OEM rebuild kit for the rear caliper seals and the castings will get vapor blast and cerakoted , along with the caliper hanger.

    The swing arm will be vapor blasted and left natural. I'm working with Rick Oliver in the UK on a one off, completely billet eccentric. When the machining is done, it will get hard anodized and receive new bearings and seals. Should have more on that later....right now the project is just lifting off.

    [​IMG]

    A few more ti bits for the shock mounting bolts and the carbon fiber chain guard that came in just today.

    [​IMG]

    Also got in the ti Dzus fasteners to make it a complete set of ti fairing bolts. The P-clips and hardware are from ProBolt, I had to source these due to another thing I wanted fixed.

    The stock front fender has bolt clips molded into the front fender to hold the stock brake line setup. It's a fucking abortion, IMHO. Looking at how it is assembled, there was no way I was going to put that shit back on the carbon fender, so I went with a simplified two line brake line setup, that eliminates the connecting blocks, hardware, and the metal crossover tube. A nice weight savings and simplification. I will mount these P-clips to the correct spot on the carbon fender. The hardware is ProBolt DLC coated aluminum, with etched heads, nylock nuts, and plastic M6 washers to keep them from scuffing up the carbon. The double banjo is DLC coated ti from Probolt, in the M10x1.00 configuration to fit the new Brembo RCS17 radial master cylinder.

    [​IMG]

    Because the stock heat shield and associated nonsense will be eliminated from the Tyga rear set assembly, I used heat shield products adhesive backed insulation to cover the rear of the heel guard to protect it, and to block some of the heat off the exhaust. It's super easy to work with, does great on compound bends and works excellent. I have bigger plans for this stuff later on in the build.

    The finished product from the visible side

    [​IMG]

    I am also having a custom shock reservoir fabricated out of carbon, as the RVF400R did not come with a shock that had a remote reservoir..so I made up this template, with assistance of Diving Pete's awesome photo's and measurements, it will hang in place of the right side pillion peg hanger, as both of the pegs and hangers will be removed.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The template went out to my carbon guy today and he will be getting after the layup of the piece soon.

    Last, but certainly not least, I have to give a massive shout out to Diving Pete. Pete is an absolute saint, my friends. One of the true good guys around here. He has helped me a ton, cannot thank this man enough for his assistance. Pete was kind enough to get me the measurements for the res hanger, but then, he also did a truly amazing thing...he removed the radiators off of his RVF400R and shipped them to Radtec in the UK so that they could hand fabricate custom race capacity radiators for my project. I am HONORED to know Pete and to have his never ending asistance. Thank you, Pete, Brother, you are a true saint and a gentleman, I am humbled by your efforts! Good karma is definitely piling up in your savings account, and I hope it does you some good.

    More to come as things continue to move in the right direction, this is just a small slice of what is going on, stay tuned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2019
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