Unleaded fuel without cats: Carcinogenic?

Discussion in 'General VFR Discussions' started by Traveller, Dec 11, 2008.

  1. Traveller

    Traveller New Member

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    I want to bring up a subject that's been bugging me for quite a while now.

    Back in the day, before the advent of unleaded fuel and catalytic engines, you remember that the petrol contained lead.
    Lead was good for the engines back then, as (among other things) it was a main lubricant for the cylinder walls. However, due to the fact that lead is highly carcinogenic (ie causes cancers) and very bad for the environment, it was phased out and replaced by fuel sans lead and engines were modified to follow suit.

    However, in order to replace the lubricant and antipinging qualities of lead, benzolium and aromatic hydrocarbons were used instead. These additives if passed through a catalytic converter were rendered (quite) harmless, but if they were simply burned they were far more carcinogenic than lead ever was!
    This is at least the theory going round the net and the various science forums.

    Now, I don't know how it is in the States, but here in Greece we have unleaded petrol and another fuel called LRP; Lead Replacement Petrol. This fuel was supposedly specifically made for engines with no cats, and contains no benzolium, but calium instead.

    Now my question:
    My Gen4 VFR has no catalytic converter. However, Honda specifically states in the owner's manual that unleaded fuel should be used.
    If unleaded fuel is so carcinogenic without a cat, then why would Honda make such a claim?

    Or am I missing something and the bike does indeed have a cat originally? :unsure:
    At the moment my bike has an aftermarket slipon exhaust, so I know for a fact that there's no cat on the bike now, but knowing that quite a few of you guys run aftermarket pipes, what do you do?

    :unsure:
     


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  2. Traveller

    Traveller New Member

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    Just to make clear that I don't care about engine performance with one or the other type of fuel; bike's got enough poke either way! I am simply concerned with long term health effects...
    (having said that, I'll be probably pushing daisies due to mobile phone cancer long before the hydrocarbons get me...) :rolleyes:
     


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  3. derstuka

    derstuka Lord of the Wankers Staff Member

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    For the most part...except for airports, you cannot find gas stations that sell leaded gasoline in the states.

    One of the only problems they could be thinking of that I can see building up of deposits, and I really can't see that being a problem. One of the problems in running old engines on unleaded is the lack of deposits that lubricate some parts and prevent erosion of the valve seats.

    Like I stated above....maybe Honda's intention was that leaded fuel will leave deposits inside your engine (valve seats etc.) that will reduce engine efficiency and might cause in the long run an engine failure. You would most likely probably burn these deposits at high RPM...but maybe that and the environment is what they are thinking of.

    Some people think that burning leaded fuel was more acidic, and this caused exhausts to become corroded/rust at a faster rate decades ago compared to today. It also could be possible that today's gasoline has a lower sulpher content thus creating less strong acids when burned, and/or modern exhausts are made out of more durable material.

    Anything else I would be just frankly pulling out of my :ass: ....but that is where I get my best ideas!!! I am not even sure if I tried to answer a question that you asked.....I was just rambling as usual! Haha!
     


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  4. Traveller

    Traveller New Member

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    I'm not concerned about the exhaust TBH... I know that all new bikes have cats, but many bikers replace the big @ss mufflers with aftermarket pipes.

    Also leaded fuel is non existant here in Greece also. However, as LRP is more expensive than unleaded, and seeing how Honda recommends using unleaded on the RC36, I got curious about the whole story...
     


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  5. crustyrider

    crustyrider New Member

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    you know,, Honda knows whats best





    :bs:


    CR
     


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  6. wdgah

    wdgah New Member

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    FYI: The addition of lead to gasoline was NOT to protect the cylinder walls, nor to protect the valve seats.

    Lead was added to gasoline because it increased the octane level of the gas, which was done to reduce the "knocking" and "pinging" (detonation) that occurs when low octane gasoline is used in higher compression engines.

    The reduction of wear on the earlier (softer) valve seats was a side effect of the lead being added, not a primary reason for it's addition.
     


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  7. Fido

    Fido New Member

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  8. eddie cap

    eddie cap New Member

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    Howdy All; Travler I believe that Honda calls out unleaded fuel on your 4th gen,because long before 1996 the U.S government, EPA, required all cars ,light trucks and motorcycles to be capable of running on unleaded fuel of,I believe 87 octane. I may be mistaken,but I believe this happened in the U.S about the early seventies. The guys are correct ,its just about impossible to buy leaded fuel over here. Derstuka,you mentioned avaition gas,I believe todays avation gas is designated as LL(low lead) and then the octane number would come after that. The one place that I buy leaded fuel at is a shop that
    builds Drag racing cars. Most of the Drag cars that have considerable modifications to their engines like very increased compression need the lead for anti detonation.
     


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