Turn signal and brake light

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Cakedaddy, Apr 10, 2022.

  1. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    Just picked up an '83 VF750F, and am totally new to it. Having an issue with the turn signals and brake light. Running lights all work (so does the horn). However, if I try to turn on the signals, the respective light goes out, and does not flash. Turn the signal off, and the light comes back on steady. The tail light doesn't do anything but stay on. Again, it's on as a running light, but does not brighten with braking. Last bit of info, previous owner claims they start working when the bike warms up (I mention this in case it actually is a thing with these bikes). But, since I don't believe in magic, and want them to work all the time, I figure I need to open things up.

    I was about to check fuses, but since they light, I'm thinking not? What controls the actual blinking for the signals?

    I doubt the brake light not working is related (haven't dug into that yet), but added just in case.

    Thank you!
     
  2. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Sorry don't have a circuit diagram for your bike, but the first thing to confirm is that every bulb is the correct type and wattage? The blinker relay relies on a specific load to activate the flash, so bulb wattage is very important. Brake/Tail lights again check they are the correct type and no blown filaments.
    You can also bypass the blinker relay, to confirm your globes and wiring. Selecting left or right will illuminate the appropriate lights.
     
  3. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    Have you checked the fuse? If the horn works then that is the same fuse as the brakes and turn signals. Running lights are on a separate fuse.

    The 5W running lights are on constantly until interupted by the turn signal button being slid left or right. Then the power flows from the fuse to the turn signal relay then to the switch then to the respective side bulbs on the 21W circuit. If there is no action when the turn signal switch is moved then possibly the blinker relay is faulty or a wire is off. Another possibility is the turn signal switch contacts are full of old grease.

    For the brakes, the bright filaments are activated by either the hand brake switch on the bars or the switch on the foot brake. Check the bulbs first, then look for continuity across the switches.
     
  4. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    pull the 2 wires on the front brake light switch off, and touch them together. if the brake light goes on you have a bad switch, if not then bad fuse or wiring or bulb.
     
  5. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    Finally had some time to dig in. After testing this, that, and the other thing, I'm really questioning the Turn Signal Relay. It seems to control the turn signals and the break light (the W/G wire runs up to the rear stop light switch from/to the turn signal relay). I can't fully test though, and I have no idea where the turn signal relay is!

    Any hints? I've been googling for a couple hours, and no luck.

    And of course I found it within 5 minutes of posting this. It actually wasn't hard to find once I knew what color the wires were that went to it.

    Another quick google search implies this exact one is no longer available. Any known replacements or work arounds?

    And what are people's luck with ebay parts? This is my first old. . . anything, and most parts I look up have an ebay listing. Traditionally, I'd stay away from things like that, but being new to the hobby, I thought I'd ask if I'm being overly cautious.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
  6. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    look in the fsm
     
  7. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    Sorry. . . FSM?
     
  8. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Factory or Full Service Manual.
     
  9. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    As mentioned you can easily bypass the Turn Relay to confirm your lights, wiring and turn switch are all ok. Simply unplug the turn relay and on the wiring side place a shorting link between the White/Green wire and the Gray wire. Now switch on and operate your blinkers left and right the lights should be fully on. If this is good then that means most likely your Turn Relay is the faulty item PROVIDED, you have also confirmed the Green ground wire for the turn relay is properly grounded.
    Turn Relay Connector wires are...... Gray = Blink Output, White/Green = 12v input from Fuse C 15amp. Green = Ground.
     
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2022
  10. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    I did download a manual for it, but didn't see anything in there about the relay's location. However, it did tell me the wire colors, so I was able to find it. Luckily, it was not buried and was easy to find.

    I'll try shorting the wires as suggested. Spent some time coloring the wiring diagram so it's easier to read.

    VF750.png
     
  11. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    I'd expect any 12v turn signal relay will work, so long as the plug connections match you should be good to go. I've certainly swapped out a standard 3-pin flasher for a 2-pin LED flasher on my 80/90s Hondas with no ill-effects.
     
  12. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    Using Grum's explanation of the relay wires, I was able to short them and verify that all blinker lights work (just don't flash), including the instrument panel lights. I'm going to try a generic 4 bulb relay in an attempt to avoid the $54+shipping OEM relay I'm finding.

    For the brake light, I was able to trace the wires on the diagram (Grum's explanation of the relay helped me transfer knowledge to the brake switches) and figure out which wires to short for a test. I started at the front lever as it was the easiest to access. Shorted the wires and the light came on. Bad switch. :-( Or so I thought. Reconnected everything and the front brake level activates the light. So I cleaned up the contacts a bit more and happy about that.
    On to the foot lever. Playing with it, I find that I can manually activate the light by pulling the 'rod' out manually. So the switch is good, it's just the spring/wire that connects the lever to the switch that needs adjustment. The dial adjustment on the switch is maxed out. So I was making new bends on the spring/wire to add tension. However, that didn't quite get it either as the switch itself is pretty dirty and doesn't actuate very smooth. I want to try to clean it, but I don't want to mess it up. What have you used to clean this switch? I didn't want to shoot brake/carb cleaner, or other solvent because I don't want to mess up the boot, inner components, etc.

    TL/DR:
    Bad blinker relay.
    Dirty connections at front brake lever tail light switch.
    Loose tension spring on the foot brake lever tail light switch and dirty switch. Any recommendation on what to use, or how to clean the foot lever tail light switch so it works more smoothly?

    Thank you all very much for the suggestions so far.
     
  13. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Try squirting some WD-40 into the foot brake switch and give it a good workout. Provided you can get it into the contacts of the switch it should do the trick. It certainly won't do any harm.
     
  14. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    Picked up a Novita EL12 from Autozone for $13. It's an electromagnet based relay. It only had two terminals, but based on what I'm seeing in the wiring diagram, leaving the ground disconnected shouldn't matter. It didn't. White/green to the X, Gray to the L and flashers work perfectly. Good blinking cadence and bright light. It's even round so it fit in the rubber mount. I did have to add some electrical tape around the center of it to make it a little fatter so it fit the rubber mount better. Also had to cut the connector off the wires and crimped on some connectors to plug into the relay. I was pretty happy it worked. Small victories. . .

    I shot some WD40 into the brake switch and it's a bit better, but not perfect yet. Going to let it sit a bit, shoot some more and work it in. Then I'm going to shoot some silicon lube on it to hopefully make it glide better. The spring/wire that connects the switch to the brake lever just has so much play in it though. So the sticky switch is fighting it. Last resort, I'm going to buy a non OEM switch and fabricate a fitting for it. Have a 3D printer, so should be able to work out a mount for it.

    Next. . . carbs. I bought a kit and was shopping for a sonic cleaner. But then I found a shop that will pull, rebuild, remount, calibrate/sync them up for just over $500. I know that's cheating, but I also know I just don't have the experience and knowledge to do the bike justice. So, I'm taking him up on it.

    Pictures if anyone's curious.


    20220420_185546.jpg 20220420_185656.jpg 20220420_185554.jpg 20220420_185648.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
  15. RllwJoe

    RllwJoe Insider

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    That is good news.

    I find that WD40 tends to make things stick after a while. WD40 is great for coating items that you do not want to rust. As it "cures" it forms a sticky film that attracts dust and dirt tho, and can in some cases make things worse. If it were me I would use some penatrating oil first then the silicone.
     
  16. Grum

    Grum New Member

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    Even better is proper electrical cleaner/lubricant like CRC 2-26 which is what I use, followed by a small application of Ox-Gard where possible.
    The suggestion of WD-40 was just for a quick fix in the case of a dirty switch as most people have WD-40 on hand, not so specific electrical cleaners.
     
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  17. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    WD40 did the trick. Brake light works well. I hit it with some water resistant silicon lubricant as well to help keep it smooth.

    Thank you all again for the help and advice. Issues are all resolved!

    Now to new tires. Checked the manufacture date and they are 10 and 11 years old.
     
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  18. Terry Smith

    Terry Smith Member

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    I just pulled off a 12 year old Michelin Pilot Road 3 from my VFR; actually was working quite nicely but I wasn't feeling that confident, and the profile was a bit flat. new tyres are always a good idea.
     
  19. RogueRC24

    RogueRC24 Member

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  20. Cakedaddy

    Cakedaddy New Member

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    After a 2 month wait, finally got the bike back. I had him do a few extra repairs while there as well because of course there were other things he found. He rebuilt the front forks as they were leaking. Flushed brakes/clutch fluids. Had him check the valves. Only 3 were out of spec needing adjusting. I thought that was pretty good news. Other minor things not worth mentioning. VERY different now! Way different ride home than the ride out there. Throttle response was solid, idled at the stops without the choke open, etc. I was concerned I'd spend all this money and not notice a difference because of age, but not the case. Worth the expense and feeling very good about the bike.

    Now tires. . .

    I'm looking up the Bridgestone being recommended, as well as other brands mentioned in other threads. But I can't find any in the size I think I need. Internet says I need 120/80-16 front, and 130/80-18 rear. I might find one, but not the other. The only set I've found is a set of Duro tires, which also happen to be the cheapest tires I've seen. I don't need the best tires given the type of riding I'll be doing, but I wasn't looking for the cheapest either.

    Where do you get your tires? Can I deviate from the specific sizes? If so, what sizes will still work (and why?). Are Duro tires a decent brand and I shouldn't be worried about the price (only $188.76 for a set)?
     
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