Timing jumped? major mechanical?

I do not own a VFR. I've been interested in them for years, and recently became serious about trading in my sport bikes for a Gen 6 VFR. I've found one for sale locally, a 2004 with 10000 miles. The seller says it sat over winter and when they tried to start it the timing jumped (chain?) and it won't start. I'm guessing the problem is something much simpler. I hope to look at the bike tomorrow and get a better idea of what could be wrong with it. Until then I just wanted to see if there have been problems with the timing chains/gears on these, or any other common problems that may act the same way.

 

Timing

I think you are correct about it being a less complicated problem. I would pick this guys brain and find out what makes him think that is the issue. Could be the deal we are all looking for.:thumbsup:

 

"Jumped timing?": probably the LEAST likely guess of any because VFRs don't do that.

 

timing

I did not want to just come out and say it but Squirrel did, WILDLY unlikely jumped timing is an issue. I would ask many well thought out questions and fleece him if it looks good.I am looking at a deal like this thursday. Wish me luck.Good luck to you.:thumbsup:

 

sometimes a dishonest seller (not saying he is) will try to cover up a problem by saying the engine won't start. he could be luring you into a deal based upon your assumption of an easy fix.

my suspicions usually range from a dropped valve to a bad tranny.

common pitches involve " it just needs a new battery," meaning that the voltage reg is shot too. Or "it needs new sparkplugs," because actually the carbs are gummed up. or " my little brother knocked it over in the driveway" which is supposed to explain the obvious crash damage.

 

That's not even funny Squirrelman! I bought a Katana a few years ago for a deal that was almost too good to be true. He said it sat over winter and was running rough. He swore it just needed the carbs cleaned. I got it home and found out one of the valves was broken off. I took it all apart to fix the engine, put it back together. On the first test drive I found out second gear was broken. I was mad.

 

I bought the bike today. It's a very nice red '04 with just a tad over 10k miles. It was owned from new by the owner of a Honda powersports dealership who recently passed, and I bought it from his son who had put the last 2000 miles on it. I picked it up at another Honda dealer where he was having the wiring harness recall done. It starts and idles fine, but has a random sharp tapping noise coming from the rear cylinder head. I spoke to the mechanic there and he seemed to think it was a lifter problem. This was a small dealer and they had no experience with the VTEC motors, they've probably never sold one. So I paid $2700 for it and loaded it in my truck. It came with matching factory hard cases and factory service manual as a bonus. I think I made out pretty well.

The seller claimed it just started ticking as it was idling, but I suspect he was giving it a good beating and broke something (there are signs of a good burnout). I've already determined that it's not a bad cam chain tensioner. The Honda mechanic said he checked the compression and it was good on all four. I guess my next step is to pull the rear valve cover and look for a broken valve spring or cam follower.

 

chances of a broken valve spring= 4%

chances of broken cam follower=0.5%

Good luck, and remember it's all a learning experience!

Let us know what the dealer says it is and how much $$ to fix it??

 

It won't be going to a dealer for repairs as long as I own it. I'm a professional mechanic, I'll be fixing this one myself.
The dealer that had it for the recall work didn't want to fix it. They recommended a different dealer.

I have the rear cams out, inspected all springs and lifters. The Vtec lifters have some visible wear on the activation mechanisms, and similar wear on the valve stems, it looks like normal wear for the miles. One of them is worn slightly worse than the others. It looks like that one may be just partially activating and catching the tip of the valve, then as the cam begins to open the valve it slips off and slams closed. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the lifter itself. I suspect the Vtec spool valve may be bypassing a small amount of oil. If it bypasses and allows a small pressure to build in the activation circuit, either the lifter with the weakest spring or the one closest to the source may be partially activating and causing the noise. It looks like I have to pull the throttle bodies to get to the spool valve.

 

I pulled the spool valve apart, found no problems there. It looks like it is designed to bypass a small amount of oil at all times to lubricate the lifters. Excess pressure bleeds off though calibrated orifice bolts in the heads. I put everything back together and ran it again, it still makes noise of course. I'm starting to wonder if it's piston noise now. I drained the oil and found just a few small flecks of aluminum, nothing alarming. I pulled the plugs and used a long screwdriver to push down on the pistons as they were stopped on the down stroke. The left rear piston has about .5-1mm play. It's either a worn wrist pin or rod bearing.... :frown: It's more work that I wanted to do. Now I'm not sure if I should try to find a used engine or fix this one.

 

good on 'ya, man for digging in yourself.

Folks who don't do their own work are missing half the fun, so you must be having lots, right??

something dire must have happened in this bike's history cuz VFRs just don't blow wristpins or bearings in 10k miles, and Honda's are noted for quality control in engine assembly and components.

 

Yeah, I figure the PO beat the snot out of it, maybe wheelied it too long and starved it of oil. I'm leaning toward replacing the whole engine/trans at this point, I don't want to fix one problem and have something else pop up next week. I got it cheap enough, I can afford to spend another grand or so on an engine. The rest of the bike is in good condition, it's worth putting some money into.

 

I have the engine removed and taken apart. It has a spun rod bearing and the crankshaft is shot. The piston was lightly contacting the head which was causing the noise. Surprisingly I did not hear the rod knock. Parts from Honda to repair this are over $800 plus my time, so I just bought a 06 engine with 2k for $950 from a salvage dealer in Colorado. I should have it by the end of the week, which gives me another week to get it back together for my trip to the Smoky Mountains.

I'm thinking about painting the frame, forks and swingarm black like an '09 while I'm waiting for the new engine.

 

Bummer

Sorry it is such a major problem but you sound like you have it well in hand and with a good out look.I hope you have a good time on your trip.:thumbsup: