Throttle by Wire

Anyone else not liking the disconnected feel from wrist to engine?

 

Haven't really noticed any feeling of disconnect. ...what exactly does yours feel like?

 

Well obviously 1st and 2nd are castrated until about 5500-6000rpm but the responsiveness of full throttle and the it's reaction to actually applying full throttle .

 

I guess I'm just not feeling what you're feeling. When I crack it wide open my VFR lunges down the road quick, fast, and in a hurry. ...if I do it too quickly the front wheel climbs up in the air and I have to be really careful about where I'm heading! lol

Yes, 1.st and 2nd are crippled, but it will still launch the front wheel skyward in either gear if I just whack it open. In higher gears I find the bike is a little more willing than I am at full throttle. Is your bike fully broken in yet? Mine felt a little sluggish for the first 2k miles, but brother does it sing now!!!

 

350 miles is all so maybe I'm putting the cart before the horse. But I definitly don't like that 1st 2nd gear. While I'm at it tthe shock is less than steller as well. Minimal rebound influence and no compression adjustment. Those are my major issues.I plan to put a ohlins shock on and and perhaps have the forks done and look at some handlebar options.I'm trying to love this bike but I'm not there yet.

 

I hear you on the suspension. I'm a bit over Honda's "ideal" weight at 225 and I find the rear a bit too bouncy as it is. If I dial in more rebound damping it just ratchets down on the harsh roads around here. The compression damping is, in my opinion, overly harsh (and non-adjustable). ...a different shock and some fork work is on my radar as well.

There is a mod (search) that will unrestrict 1st & 2nd gear, or you can wait for Bazzaz to release their Z-Bomb which will be a plug & play device that does the same thing (removes the 1st and 2nd gear restrictions); both will result in the dash gear indicator giving a false reading of 3rd gear in 1st & 2nd. ...one of my biggest gripes about this bike.

The other is the vibration in the throttle grip. Better grips helped, but not enough. My hand goes to sleep quickly at speed and it's really frustrating me.

Beyond that, the bike is SO much fun to ride, and ride hard. Even with the suspension as it currently sits, I can rail all day long on this thing and run, what I consider, a very sporty pace. ...and it's all day comfortable (for me).

The motor is fantasic, and pulls like a freight train. The brakes are amazing, tough the ABS is a little on the obtrusive side, it's not bad at all. The bike is remarkably flickable for its size and it stays planted in turns like nothing I've ridden before, truly like it's on rails!

Keep riding, I think she'll grow on you!

 

Thanks,Iwill

 

I haven't felt any disconnect at all now or when I got her with 600 miles on her over 5k now. I've noticed that after backing up sometimes you have to roll her forward just a little bit to get into first gear. The restriction in 1st & 2nd gear I didn't know about until I had put a few miles on which doesn't bother me at all, I still think you shoot the bike right out from under you in 1st if you really tried.

 

I certainly can.

 

In winter the restriction in first and especially 2nd gear was okay. But in fair weather like we're having it does bother me a lot. So I'm really waiting for the Bazzaz gizmo.

As to being disconnected, no apart from those two gears I don't feel that at all. I'd ridden the Aprilia Shiver when it first came out and it felt like a 125 until a certain rpm. On the Dorsoduro I later rode, the mapping was fixed and it felt like ours, like CV carbs that do the same thing yet mechanically: give the engine the fuel it needs, not the fuel you want it to get. If that's a clear explanation...:smile:

 

Call me old school but I prefer to manage the throttle control myself. If I apply full throttle then I want the butterflys open fully.Not when Honda decides to open them.There is no reason this bike needs a computer to manage throttle opening It's like a big brother thing.I don't need you(Honda) to protect me from myself.

 

That's exactly why I resent Honda's 1st and 2nd gear restrictions. I know I have a powerful bike under me, I don't need Honda (or any other manufacturer) to control that power when THEY say it needs to be.

However, I have difficulty remembering when I last rode a bike with a 'normal' carb, where full throttle means full throttle. Fueling and ignition timing on the bikes I've had for say the past 10 or so years was determined by the manufacturer. In every case (EPROM, Tuneboy, PCIII etc.) these could be altered.

I personally like ride-by-wire actually as long as it's not intrusive. Which you clearly feel is the case with the Honda.
FI was a breath of fresh air after my last carb bike which froze the carbs every commute when temps were around freezing and humidity high. The fun quickly went out of riding every time that happened I can tell you!

 

A combination of things.

Hi Folks, I am new to the Forum and have had my 1200 for 3 months 2500km. There are three main problems with the bike.

1 The bike is overgeared, which makes the 3500 flat spot a lot worse. (never heard that mentioned before) I ride with a 1300s and it pulls 450rpm higher in every gear at any speed. Thats why I cant get on top in rollons.

2 The 3500 flat spot (just straight up crazy you think Honda would have it sorted)

3 Speed restriction in 1st and 2nd gear (cheap ass traction control) These are the three problems with performance below 5000rpm with the overgearing being the main one, then the flatspot, then the reduction in 1st and 2nd.

The combination of all 3 can give you funny feelings at the throttle below 5000rpm but above it, the thing rocks.

 

I don't know about over gearing being an issue but the "flat spot" you refer to is not an fi issue like early fuel injected bikes this is a limit by design .This is Hondas way of creating a safer power delivery in their opinion in the lower gear range.The only problem is it creates a more dangerous possibility in a mid corner situation with a sudden burst of power when you're not expecting it when one is simply trying to dial in a smooth progression of throttle apexing a turn or your inputting more throttle because your not getting what you want then suddenly your getting more than you bargain for.

 

Hi RWR, what I am saying is its these 3 areas that give that disconected feel you are talking about. Believe me this bike is overgeared by atleast 500rpm. If it was geared right, no flat spot at 3500 and no speed reduction in 1st and 2nd. You would think it was running of cables directly to the FI not threw RBW. My plan of attack is cant do stuff all about the gearing but I have Dam exhaust on the way, I will also get the Bazzaz Fuel controler and 1st and 2nd gear overide box which should go a long way in sorting this thing out below 5000rpm and take away a lot of that disconected feel below 5000 also.

 

Respectfully I disagree.The gearing has nothing to do with flat spots . It's my belief that Honda intentionally limits the power in the first 2 gears. until about 5500 rpm as I see it.

 

RWR has it exactly right

 

Yeah, it's not the gearing. It's actually the hp/torque limiting done in 1st and 2nd along with the "less than ideal" fuellling all around. ...but mainly the restriction of 1st & 2nd. I actually understand the fuelling issues, they need the bikes to pass California's strict smog requirements, which means tuning the bike overly lean for better emissions; I get that, and you can work around it with a PCIII or the (soon to come) Bazzaz unit.

...but the restriction in 1st and 2nd utterly baffles me, and it really makes the bike a LOT less fun on tight twisty roads, where you live in 2nd gear. It makes it nearly impossible to apply smooth throttle post-apex as the bike feels like it's bogging down, then lunges.

If the fix for that is an incorrect gear indication in those 1st two gears, so be it. ...but shame on Honda for such a truly CRAPPY implementation!!!

The rest of the bike is utterly fantastic though, and I do LOVE the machine!!!

...probably why in 3 months I've got 6000 miles and am going on my 3rd set of tires this week! :biggrin:

 

A combination of 3 things I said.

Guys I am saying the gearing is part of the problem. Like if it was 500rpm up the scale you would not notice the 3500 flat spot as bad, the bike would pull threw the flat spot better. The gearing is a problem when you ride with a 1300s and every time he stands on the throttle from a roll on you dont have a hope in hell on a 1200f. But if I was just up 500rpm I would be all over the back of the 1300s. At any given speed the 1300s is up 500rpm so gearing is a problem, we have higways like Auto Barns with 110 km speed limits, you cant pop this thing into 6th unless your doing 140+. If this thing was geared right and being a v4 you should be able to pop it into 6th at 120km and cruze no sweat at all. On low speed corners you should not have to go back to 1st this is a v4 1200 and should take the slowest corners in 2nd gear with out drama but it dont.

 

The 1300S is an inline 4, of course it's geared differently. ...ride in a lower gear!

I think 1st is too short, but 2nd gear on up are pretty much perfect. You're saying you would like the bike geared even lower, which I think would make the bike a bit too buzzy (worse than it is). I actually think 1st should be a little taller, but that's it. ...and the hole at 3000rpm in 1st and second is there, period. I don't care if you're at 3000rpm or 3500 rpm, you're still riding in a hole! ...as the red line in the dyno chart will show:



The problem isn't the gearing. It's the gigantic hole in the power band. If you look at the black line, you can see what it looks like without the restriction in 1st & 2nd. ...pretty beautiful, linear torque & power buildup without the restriction.

As for not having a chance against the 1300S ...either you need to be in a lower gear, or forget about keeping up until you fix the hole in the power-band.

VFRs have always like to live at and above 5500rpm. Below that and you're in "cruise" mode with these engines (below 3500 and you're just lugging the engine, which this bike has the torque to happily do all day long). Above 5500 though, you had better be hanging on when you drop the hammer! :biggrin: