Stopping on a sidehill

Discussion in 'New Riders' started by djenkins, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. djenkins

    djenkins New Member

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    I've owned my 2007 VFR800 for only over a month, because of the mild winter had it out about 5 times and am slowly getting to know it and enjoy riding again after many years without a motorcycle. Last Sunday, since the weather was beautiful, I decided to take it for a ride on some low-traffic roads. I geared up, carefully backed it out of the garage, and fired up the engine, looking forward to a nice time.

    My driveway is about 35 yards long, uphill to the street which it meets at right angles, which is also a slope, medium steep, I'd guess around 7%, moving down left to right. That means that where the driveway and the street intersect is a sidehill lie--the left side higher than the right.

    I stopped at the end of the driveway to make sure no cars were coming down the street. Even though it's residential and the speed limit is 25, it's essential to check carefully for cars. Just the week before I'd slowly driven the car out of the driveway front-first and almost got creamed by a minivan coming from the left that crested the hill going well over 25. I didn't want a repeat of that with the bike.

    So I came to a stop to look both ways, putting my feet down. Because it's a sidehill lie at the top, the bike leaned more right than left, and the next thing I knew I was going down. The engine shut off automatically like it should. Nice feature I wish I didn't have to test.

    I snapped off the right side mirror, bent the front brake lever, sheared off the lean indicator on the right foot peg, and, worst of all, really scratched the lower fairing. I'm sick about it, feel like a total idiot and completely incompetent. Although it's been many years since my last bike, I rode it and its predecessor a lot for at least 10 years, and don't ever remember dropping a bike when stopped.

    Besides blaming myself for being so unprepared and uncoordinated, I'm wondering if this bike is a little top heavy, and also how to handle situations like the top of my driveway where you have to stop on a sidehill. The bike's in the garage until the parts come to fix it and I figure out how to get it safely into the street.

    Dave the moron
     
  2. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    Don't beat yourself too much, these bikes are taller than true sports bikes and not the lightest. Try to figure a path where the angles work in your favor, like coming up left side of your drive way and turn your bike to the right while still being able turn your head to see oncoming traffic, then exit to the right. Get yourself some of those convex stick on mirrors so you have a wider view angle in your left mirror. Also look into a small convex mirror at the end of your driveway so you can see back down the road to your left. Exit the driveway to the right, staying close to the right side of the road to give anyone the clearance to get by you if required. Make sure there isn't any gravel, twigs or leaves at the top of your driveway. Nothing scarier than putting your foot down and having it slide a bit. If it feels more comfortable and you have better visibility on the right, reverse the procedure and go up right side and angle left and exit left, going up hill. I wouldn't start out 90 degrees to the road. Also, the older VFR's were pretty rough under 3k rpm, make sure you have enough engine speed and ease the clutch out, don't want it to stall mid turn.
     
  3. JimHanus

    JimHanus New Member

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    I've dropped my bikes twice in 21 years, both times stupid things. #1 I was parked in a grassy field, and there was a dip under the bike I didn't see. Put the sidestand down, leaned over and it just kept leaning. No damage. #2 was in the garage. Thought I had the sidestand down and leaned it onto the non-existent sidestand. Had enough sense to think that if I landed it on the bar end, I might save everything. It actually worked, and nothing was damaged. I don't think your bike is overly top heavy, unless you're used to riding smaller bikes or dirt bikes. I rode an old Honda Gold Wing once for a couple miles. THAT was extremely top heavy. I was afraid to stop for fear of not being able to even hold it up.
     
  4. Knight

    Knight New Member

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    Hi Dave, sorry about your spill. The good news is that the damage is only plastic and parts. There is nothing fatal about this spill. One day you will look back and laugh at it. Don't be too hard on yourself.

    Does the VFR have weight on top? Yes and it can be a real chore keeping it up in those circumstances.

    How tall are you? Stopped on the slant does your right foot touch the ground? Is it tippy-toe?

    You mentioned that you put both feet down. What I would do here is keep my left foot (that's the high side right?) on the peg. Keep all of your weight on that peg. Since the pegs are close to the bike center of gravity they are not spectacular levers in terms of how much rotational force they apply but they are the best we have, versus having all of your weight on the seat which provides no help. Your body weight on that peg must do the rest.

    I would think approaching this area perfectly perpendicular to the slant would give the rider the most predictable position for stopping, but you should re-analyze that area and see what you think. As some pointed out above, maybe a left-to-right approach or such may work better.

    Depending on your local riding habits you can leave less gas in the tank to shave some of the high weight.

    You may alter the bike such as shaving the top of the seat. Sport bikes are particularly high and one size does not fit all.
     
  5. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Don't fret Dave plenty of VFR owners have been there and done much the same..

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/44298-You-dropped-it-how-many-time!

    Others have already covered many of the things to consider when faced with an off-camber junction. Its definitely a good idea to go out on foot and figure out how best to approach that junction - if there is any loose gravel then take a broom and clear away anything loose to ensure you will have a really confident footing at the junction. But check from time to time just in case it needs sweeping again.

    Just near me is a very similar severe camber junction where the only safe solution is to only turn left even if you really want to turn right. Thankfully there is a roundabout a hundred yards down from the junction where I can safely change directions so I never bother attempting to turn right at that junction. If you conclude that it is a lot safer/easier to join the road by only turning in one direction then maybe accept this and only turn in that direction in future.

    Yes these bikes are relatively top heavy but there are other factors which can come into play. The key point to recognise is the point of no return is probably passed sooner than on lighter bikes, so especially for lighter/shorter riders slow speed manouvers on a VFR can be a real challenge. The fuel tank on these bikes is also relatively large, so if the bike starts to lean you can suddenly find the bike is way too heavy to hold up once the fuel sloshes rapidly to that side. Add in other factors like sloping or uneven surfaces and potholes and its a wonder Randy's list is not a lot longer. Once 240kg of bike opts for horizontal parking mode the best thing a 70kg plus rider can do is accept the inevitable and get out the way! If you try to fight gravity it is far too easy to injure your back, or get trapped under the bike.

    So what to do?

    OK it may sound like shutting the stable door but my first suggestion is to fit decent R&G frame sliders and bar end bungs. They are not cheap but being installed through the frame they will greatly reduce the risk of damage if the bike tips over again and will also minimise the risk of your legs being pinned beneath a quarter tonne of motorbike!

    If you are relatively short and are often forced to tippy toe at junctions then you may want to hit the motorbike accessory shops and find some proper riding boots with a slightly thicker (elevated) heel and sole. You may find that boots with a slightly more chunky sole will allow you to reach the road surface well before the bike is tipped beyond the point of no return.

    OEM mirrors are not cheap - and plenty of others on here have found the Chinese EMGO mirrors (eBay) are an awful lot cheaper, and look virtually identical. Whatever you fit please don't just bolt them on. Take the time to ease off the mirror pivot bolt at the hinge near the screen. There is an allen key bolt head - which may be hidden by a prise off plastic cover at that hinge. You just need to tighten the bolt enough for the mirror to remain where you need, but loose enough so that if the bike does go over - rather than snapping off it should swing harmlessly out the way. You can do the same trick with the levers - just remember to check from time to time that they remain snug.

    If you have access to a vice and take your time, you have a roughly 50% chance of being able to straigthen that bent lever without breaking it. Honda parts are not cheap so it probably worth giving it a go, use some soft timber to cover the vice faces to reduce any damage to the alloy lever and very very slowly use the vice to return the lever to its correct shape.

    Whether you rush out and repair or replace the damaged fairing is your call. As you have only owned the bike for a few weeks - if its just cosmetic damage - without any jagged or broken edges to snag your riding gear - then I would leave it alone for a few months. If you lift the seat you should find the paint code - and a few minutes spent with a genuine Honda touch up brush may cover a lot of the damage.

    VFR's deserve to be ridden and not preserved as some sort of showroom exhibit - a few battlescars only shows the bike has seen some action.

    Take care



    SkiMad
     
  6. djenkins

    djenkins New Member

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    Thanks, this is great advice. I will definitely use your angle of attack suggestion--start on the left side of the driveway before turning right makes a lot of sense. It's a little less off-camber at the top of my driveway just before it meets the sidewalk, now that this has happened I can see the sidewalk, where I went down, is sloped more than the top of the driveway. If I stop before the sidewalk (I really have to stop, there isn't much traffic on my street but it's used as a short-cut during rush hour and people can be in a hurry) I think I'll have an easier time staying upright. I really appreciate the suggestions.
     
  7. djenkins

    djenkins New Member

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    Thanks for this. I'll get some paint, it won't look like new but it will look better touched up than it does now. It's so damn pretty, I hate what I did to it.

    I'll look into the frame sliders. I almost bought a new Kawasaki Ninja 650 last year (glad I didn't, although it seems like a really good bike my VFR was cheaper, more powerful, bigger and should be even better for longer trips) and it seemed everybody who bought one installed frame sliders. Should have done this sooner. And when the mirror arrives I'll make sure it and its left side mate swing out of the way when forced. I'm 5'10", reaching the ground when stopped isn't a problem--unless I lean the wrong way, then obviously it is. :grey:
     
  8. djenkins

    djenkins New Member

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    Keeping the left foot on the peg and leaning left is something I never would have thought of, I will definitely try this. Also approaching as much from the right to point into the hill as much as possible, makes a whole lot of sense. Thank you for mentioning it. I wish I'd thought about how challenging the driveway/off-camber situation is before Sunday. I guess if this is the worst thing that happens on the bike this year I'll be happy. (Well, not happy, thankful is more like it.)
     
  9. mofo

    mofo New Member

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    Welcome moron.
    J/K. I agree with everyone's advice here. Skid gave you good advice about the mirrors, I do the same with brake and clutch levers.
    I have extra levers and you are welcome to have it. They came off a VTR if I remember correctly, but fit the VFR perfectly.
    As for frame sliders...........read my signature. And don't forget to tell us a story on the link provided above.
     
  10. Scubalong

    Scubalong Official Greeter?

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    Sorry to hear about your mishaps :sad:
    Take time and restore her :thumb:
     
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