sound clips of my bike's bad start - what do you hear?

I heard the bike's voice. It was very sickly sounding, lots of coughing and squeaky grinding, but at the last effort I heard a glimpse of its voice, and I liked what I heard. No good run though, I luckily had my blackberry outside with me and I decided to 'document' the sounds of it trying to start, and was hoping maybe y'all might hear something distinct with your trained ears in what to me just sounds like an old bike not starting. P.S. if anyone can give me a better hint at how to better post these videos, please do tell!

after trying to post these video/audio clips on facebook, to get them here via links, I had too much trouble! So I made a blog post and here's a link to that post with the audio clips easily accessible for you to hear:
http://wadsworthpilgrim.blogspot.com/2010/04/well-i-got-bike-put-back-together-but.html

I'm thinking I need to replace the original 1986 spark plugs as a first step, but does that 'fit' what it sounds like to you?

 

It sounds fuel starved to me. Do you have the vacuum line connected to the petcock? When was the last time it ran?

 

yeah I'd replace the plugs for sure but when you do check spark as well, it doesn't sound like it's firing on all cyls.

 

Check to see that fuel lines are not squashed under your tank, first

 

Fuel, Air, Spark. Those are the things to check, in that order, when an engine won't start.

 

OK... I'm going to work on the bike some tonight, but what I'm thinking after researching and rethinking things, I think things look positive. The bike had sat for 5 years, with fuel sitting in the carbs. I spent an entire season cleaning them out very thoroughly. The bike was probably left sitting because I discovered the petcock's diaphragm was kinked inside, and when I first put gas in there, it was peeing out of the breather hose. I took it apart, corrected the diaphragm, and now it holds a seal. The vacuum line is connected to the petcock and the engine. The problem I think is exactly what daveyto suggested, that the vacuum line is squashed underneath the tank. The petcock's vacuum line port is pointing straight down, causing the vacuum line to squash into the airbox..., so I'm going to take it apart and reassemble it with the vacuum port pointing in the same direction as the fuel and breather lines. I was using a chlidren's tylenol "syringe" to pull a suction on the engine end of the vacuum line, so maybe it was squeezed just enough to still let me pull a suction manually, but not the engine? I'll see soon if the problem was that simple. And yeah, either way the plugs are getting replaced!

Silverado, by "fuel, air, spark", do you mean make sure the fuel line, the vacuum line, and the spark plugs are in order? Or do some other parts of the bike need checked to ensure the fuel, air & spark are working?

Squamish, what do I need to do to make it run on all cylinders? Will new spark plugs solve that, or what other problems might cause that?

Thanks very much for your ideas, you've pointed me in a good direction.

 

OK... last night I removed the vacuum line plate from the petcock and rotated it 90 degrees so the line would follow the same direction as the breather and fuel lines. I put it all back together and the fuel tank sat onto the bike a lot less "squishy"-like. So if there was a problem before, part of it might well have been the vacuum line being squished. I hooked the bike's battery leads (still don't have a battery for it) to my car's battery and tried to start it up. I'd left my phone inside, so I couldn't take any more audio clips, but I think I can explain in words what happened:

It ran pretty well (as far as my untrained ears can tell, I don't know what it's 'supposed' to sound like) when I'd hit the starter, for a good 10 seconds at least, before it would just putter out. I started it up and it did this a few times in a row. As it would putter out if I hit the starter it would come back to life, but then putter out again. Once it was running, as I would slowly open the choke, that would cause it to putter out. Once it was running, if I kept the choke closed it would let me open the throttle just slightly for a slight increase in rpm, but then it would putter out. The idle screw is set so it runs with the choke closed at about 1500rpm. I'm thinking it's turn right (tight) for higher rpm, and left (looser) for lower rpm, right? Do I need to change this so it works with the choke open? Towards the end of my night, it would putter out as soon as I started to open the choke, or as soon as I opened the throttle. It wouldn't do anything but it's starting idle, without puttering out. After that, it must have had enough with me because it wouldn't even start up anymore. I had a good vacuum on the vacuum line, using my baby tylenol plastic syringe, all the lines from the tank were not kinked or squeezed, but the remaining thing is, I do need to get out there and replace the plugs.

My question is: based on my description, does it sound to you like getting new spark plugs could solve the problem, or is this nothing to do with the spark? Thanks very much for everyone's time.

 

What they here are saying' check all the spark lug wires eg; take a spark plug ground it and check each wire , you should see a blue spark at each wire ;if not then there is a problem and make sure the plug wires are in the right orer..


My 2 cents hope it helped, good luck!!

 

You cannot diagnose bad spark plugs with a sound clip.
You need to get a shop manual and do scheduled maintenience OR take it to a shop and have them do it.
A Blackberry cannot help you.

As far as being starved for fuel. If you ask the average passerby why something won,t start, they ALWAYS say, "Sounds like its not getting fuel." VERY COMMON
It means nothing. You have to do scheduled maintenience and it is a physical thing. A Blackberry cannot change spark plugs.

 

It can cause damage to just ground a spark plug to see if it is making a spark on electronic ignition systems.
It is better to just clip a timing light onto each wire and see the spark.
That tells you if its getting spark AND if the spark is even pulses too.

 

Has this bike been sitting for a while? How many miles on it?

Why just start tearing things apart?

"Original 1986 spark plugs!!!!!!?? You better go get some new plugs just to start with.

No,,,no,, Just take it to a shop and get a complete tune up. 1986!!!! wow.
Better get off the Blackberry and interface with reality for a while.

Now I read that it "has sat for 5 years!!!!! That should have been the first thing you said before giving us a sound clip. Game Over.


The idle jets are very probably clogged if it has carbs and you turned the petcock off.

 

So let me get this straight: What you're telling me is that back when I took the carbs apart to clean them, taking pictures of my jets with my blackberry DIDN'T clean them out? Or when I waved the blackberry over the fuel tank, that DIDN'T un-kink the tube? WTH That's ridiculous!

Dude I know what you mean, but come on lighten up. I know that just having a blackberry won't fix my bike, I think I explained thoroughly that "I DON'T KNOW" what the bike should sound like when running properly. I took those sound clips because I know people have been able to hear whether it isn't firing on all cylinders, or "for all I know" (don't forget, I'm a newbie), they MIGHT be able to determine what the problem is by hearing. I repeat, I don't know!

You've got to settle down man. Just say "You cannot diagnose bad spark plugs with a sound clip", that's all I had to hear. I understand it's a "physical work" that will take more than just fooling around with my blackberry. And dude if I've done something to offend you, PM me and let's get it settled. But your lack of patience and tact is very disturbing. Just tell me, "most people will say it sound like it's not getting fuel", and that in your experience "that's the most common mis-diagnosis." You don't have to insult EVERYBODY I'm having help me, including some people on this very forum (Toecutter for instance), calling them an "average passerby"... I mean really, I appreciate what you said, I thank you for the advice. but come on, don't be so hateful about it. And anyway, the one and only "passerby" who was walking by my driveway as I was trying to start the bike said "HEY you gotta clean the CARBS." I told him I have already (I waved my blackberry over them, see) and he said "Oh." Didn't even mention it sounding like it's not getting fuel.

Like I said if I've done anything to bring on your manner I apologize. But at this point, I'm just interested in why you have such a hatred for the awesomeness which is the blackberry?

 

I've spent the last season or two cleaning out the jets!

 

three times you hate on the blackberry! If it will cool you down, I'll reveal that I DON'T have the internet service activated, I just use it for a phone with a good organizer on it, this has been the first time I've used the sound recorder, and I'm a 28 year old father of two and husband of one, I have a VERY strong grasp on reality. You hear "blackberry" and assume I'm some dorktard. Thank you, sir, thank you.

 

I never heard that word "Dorktard" I did not think you were a Dorktard. I just thought you were spending too much time on an electronic devise and need to spend more time actually doing scheduled maintenience. "28 year old father of two and husband of one" I am not sure if that is proof of a grip on reality, but it may mean you are so busy with taking care of your family you have not had much time to work on the bike. Good luck with your scheduled maintenience on the bike.
Sorry if I offended you. Sincerely. I don't have internet service on my cell phone either. I save $30.00 per month.

The internet does not convey the true conversation. It is a poor form of communication.
It was meant to be funny. Sorry.

 

I see. I know, it doesn't take much brains to be a dad, but to be a GOOD FATHER, that's a different thing. But yeah what I was trying to say by sharing that is exactly what you got from it: I've got much more important things to spend money on (my kids wife & house!) than fixing this fossil of a bike. Also I think I should further "defend myself" by pointing out that the bike had sat in a barn for 5 years BEFORE it was given to me!!! NOT my fault! But yeah I spent over 3 months taking the carbs apart, removing the jets, and THOROUGHLY cleaning them out. At this point, the carbs are the last thing I think might be the problem.

I'll go get some new plugs and let you all know how things turn out.

On what were you basing you opinion of me? The fact that I took some sound clips?! In this generation, sir, this is hardly using an electronic device too much! No, if I were talking about getting advice from my twitter friends, and getting emails from Nigeria about how to clean carbs, and trying to find the best new-age LaserGun which would disintegrate any crud without damaging the metal of the bike, THAT would be too much! By the way I do NOT tweet on twitter. Satan will ski to work before I tweet. No, you didn't offend me, and I see now I misunderstood your intent. See, I thought you were just patronizing me, using me to show off how much you know, having assumed I was some punk with a smart phone, expecting the work to do itself. I mean that's what it SEEMED like! Glad we got that settled!

 

op2: Wow this is getting funny, I think allot of people are getting edgy because it's spring and they can't ride?

The blackberry sound clips are helpfull, I can hear very clearly that it's trying to start but isn't firing on all cyls, be that from fuel spark or whatever.

fuel spark, air yes.

Is the bike getting fuel in the floatbowls? Surely there are drain plugs you could pull to see if fuel is getting there past the petcock. Don't use old lawnmower gas you had since last summer, ensure you are feeding it fresh gas. Gas goes bad in as little as 30 days and it does make a difference. Since you pull the choke and it gets worse, then we can maybe make the assumption that it is not fuel. However one trick that I've done is using storage seal in a spray can while it's running or trying to run spray it down the carbs, if the bike fires stronger you are not getting fuel. Engines will run on the stuff to some degree and has the added bonus of bumping up the compression a bit. Mainly it's safer to use than a spray bottle of gasoline for the same purpose. But as I said I'm thinkin' from as far away as I am that fuel is fine (maybe).

Spark. It is not true that if you stuff a plug in the lead and ground it out that you will damage the ignition. It IS true that if you hold the plug too far aloft above the block (a good ground) that it is hard on the coils and it's 25 year old insulation...so ensure the plug is grounded when you do it, or you might damage the coils. New plugs are a good investment. Check spark at each hole ensure it is nice and blue, orange spark is weak and under compression may not be strong enough to jump the gap. Just for a laugh try cranking the bike in the dark, look at the coils when you do and see if you can see any leakage flashing out of places it's not supposed to, but be advised I've seen a hazey blue static kinda surrounding the wires on some bigger engines with long wires (boats) which is normal. I think you might find that two of your plugs are not firing, is so try swapping the coils around and re-check if the problem follows the coil you have your answer.

Air, is it getting any? Sounds simple but it happens. A deisel engine bit me this way with ice in the filter. Simply put it needs air through the filter to run. Compression. You should check it, if you are not getting enough compression it won't run right. That's how storage seal sometimes helps by temporarily boosting the compression. Should be checked when warm but cold will due for now. Not sure what your spec is but engines will run with 110lbs or more 140lbs is nice. If you are getting below 100 you've got a problem. If you don't have a compression tester then what you could do is disable the coils so it doesn't fire and roll it over with the plugs in it and listen to the cadence or rythym as it rolls over. It should be nice and even, if it speeds up at the same point in the rythym you might have a dead hole. This is a 2-second way of detecting a catastrophic failure when you have no tools.

Lastly and the most important thing is to remember that what you are doing is supposed to be the fun part too. You've got a very old bike and this kind of thing is part of that experience...this IS the fun part. With the support of forums this should not be impossible. It's also a learning process which is of tremendous value. I've been a mechanic for over twenty years and I get lots of very usefull info here from the average "passer-by"; people who are not PRO's. It is very rewarding (at times frustrating) to resurrect a piece of junk and EARNING the right to ride it on the road and park the bitch right next to the chachies at Starbucks with the ducati 999's with the hand sanded knee pucks and feel just as proud.

Good luck, you'll get it.

 

Twitter....Don't have time for that nonsense.

 

Hand sanded Knee pucks !!! ......Oh brother.

chachies???? you mean like Khacki pants??? Those kind?

 

Thanks guys for all your advice. I will try everything you've all suggested. Starting with new spark plugs.