Problem with Michelin Pilot Road 2 Tires

Long story short:

> 2007 VFR w/8,000 miles
> Had a local shop install a set of Michelin PR2's, I removed the wheels and brought them to the shop to avoid any issues with the shop scratching anything.
> After installing the tires I noticed a bad vibration on the highway
> Vibration was noticeable @70 mph and just get worse as you go faster
> Didn't feel safe at 90 mph, I could feel the vibration in the front wheel starting at 80 mph. (Remember our speedo is off by about 5mph so call it 75 when the vibration starts and 85mph that I would not feel safe.)
> Original tires were smooth up into the triple digits (Metzlers)
> Took the bike back to the shop to have them check the tires (and my install)
> They removed and rebalanced both wheels
> No improvement on the highway
> Today, the shop replaced the front tire with another new PR2 (no charge)
> Felt much better at hwy speeds on the way home
> Checked the wheels and noticed about a dozen scratches on the wheels mostly on the front, one on the back wheel.
> Let the shop know the tires are better but not too happy about the scratches

Seems like I always get screwed when putting tires on my vehicles, can anyone put a set of tires on without screwing up the wheels????

Does anyone think the paint on the wheels is easy to scratch?

I can't say the scratches are noticeable enough to repaint the wheels.

 

I had a set mounted by Kens mc tires in Woodstock. I had no issues and he didn't mess up my wheels. Mine rides smooth up into the 130mph range. If you still have issues go see him. He was also cheaper than the internets on the tires and only charged $60 to remove wheels and reinstall. Great guy my family has been purchasing from him for a very long time. I know this doesn't help much but maybe Ken can help you out.

 

I am on my third set of pr2 and quite pleased with them. Last set we pr3 only difference was additional treads for rain. I didn't notice any difference so went back to the 2's which are cheaper.. I have a few minor scratches on the wheels but 100,000 miles and 6 tire changes, I can't complain too much. But I do think they could have been a little more carefull. First scratch I was devistated but I am over that long ago.

 

Any time I've taken my bikes rims in for a tire swap, I make sure that the person who writes up the work order takes a close look at the wheel and signs off that there is no damage to the paint on the rim. This way, if there is any damage to the rims when I pick them up, I have some proof that the damage was done by the shop in question. I usually get my local Honda dealer to do the install of my tires and, knock on wood, I have never had a problem. I had one set of Pilot Roads installed on my last bike and had a bit of a vibration and when I took it back they checked the tire and removed and rebalanced it at no cost. The tech that did the balance the second time said that the tire was not installed correctly. Apparently there is a dot on the tire sidewall somewhere that marks the position where the tire is supposed to be lined up with the location of the valve stem so that the tire balances properly. Personally, I think it might have been some way of explaining the balance issue, but heh, anything is possible. Regardless, problem was solved.

I had a balance problem on my Mazda 6 last year after having a set of new snow tires installed on some aftermarket alloys and it didn't matter how many times the shop rebalanced them, the vibration would not go away. They suggested I take the car to a shop near my house that repairs bent, scuffed and damaged alloy wheels, and when he checked the balance on all wheels, the balance was fine. Upon closer inspection though he discovered that 2 of the rims were slightly out of round. He showed me the difference with a dial caliper gauge and sure enough the outside edge of the wheel was straight and true, was there was a bend on the inside lip that was ever so slight that you could see it wobble when on the balance machine. He repaired the wheel and when he put the tires back on, wow what a difference. The shop owner said that it is not uncommon to slightly bend a wheel by hitting a speed bump, or driveway curb too fast and hard (less than 10 km/h). Maybe if rebalancing the wheel doesn't work, see if there is anyone in your area that can check to see if the wheel lip isn't slightly bent (more likely the rear wheel since it is wider and shaped more like a car rim).

 

Let me know next time you need them changed and I can do it for you. I have a tire changer and Marc Parnes balancer and and all it will cost ya' is lunch and a 12 pack of Sweetwater 420. I also have a trailer hitch attachment so I can come to you if needed I'm in the Duluth/Johns Creek area. If you ever wanted to learn how to change your own tires this is a great chance to learn.

Rollin

 

I'm with Rollin. It's a lot easier than you would think. Learn to do your own tires, saves on all the headaches you might run into with some of the less than attentive techs changing your tires and messing up your rims. Several internet retailers ship tires free and most (atleast around me) tire shops take your old tires for free.

 

Thanks for the offer, I wish I had known about you before I went through this ordeal. I went with the PR2's partly because I did not want to deal with tire shops twice as often as if I had gone with a better performing tire instead of a longer lasting tire.

Most VFR riders here seem to really like the PR2's but so far I'd say they are not as smooth or quiet as the OEM Metzler ME Z4's that came on the bike.

If I had it to do over again I think I would have chosen the Bridgestone BT-023 as a good balance between performance an tread life.

There is a guy at work that told me he changed his own tires last time but the rims took a beating so I thought my only choice was one of the local shops, now that I know there is a fellow VFR owner who can do it, next time I need tires I will give you a call Rollin_Again.

 

I have the used PR2 and now the PR3. They are smooth as butter. I don't think the tech properly balanced your tires. They just did a bad job TWICE.

 

I watched the two techs balance the tires, they did a static balance on the rear since they don't have the adapter plate for the high speed balancer, and the front balanced fine twice. I've been told that there is nothing wrong with doing a static balance on the wheel, the WERA guys at the track balance all their wheels that way and they are running upwards of 190mph.

Replacing the front tire helped with the problem, although I'd still have to say my old Metzler tires ran smoother and quieter on the hwy. On the other hand, the new tires are great otherwise. Turn in is smooth and predictable and they feel great when leaning into the corners. Now that the front feels better, I will put a few more miles on the PR2's and post back what I think after the tires are worn in a bit.

In the future I probably won't go back to them though. The scratches on the rims seem to have been caused by the techs not getting the brake calipers out of the way when they removed and reinstalled the front wheel.

 

It's been my experience over the years most shops have some kind of disclaimer hanging on the wall usually out of sight about scratching wheels when mounting tires. Or its on the work order in real small type about how they're not responsible.

Are there any shops in your area that powder-coat motorcycle wheels? If so some do offer mounting & balancing services as it is a big part of their process. These shops are very skilled at NOT scratching their own work. I had my wheels powder-coated this year & found that shop that did it also offers full tire services. Labor & tire prices were very reasonable, lower than dealerships but on par with independent shops.

I'm not suggesting getting your wheels refinished, just suggesting that kind of shop might do a better job of not messing up you wheels.

 

Sorry to hear of your tire issues. I don't want to be alarmist but for me, tires rank way up with brakes as things NEVER to take a chance on. So if they still don't feel absolutely right - go back and create a big fuss until they deliver a safe solution!

I am not sure if its relevant to this - but it is possible the problems may not be entirely due to the tire fitter. Earlier this year, a guy I ride with regularly, mentioned he had switched to Bridgestones after seeing a worrying report on the FJR site - about faults were appearing in PR2s - despite having no issues with the 2 previous sets of PR2s on his FJR. Defective PR2 - FJRForum

Certainly I would be pretty alarmed to see an almost new tire splitting down the middle. But I guess something like that developing might also give rise to tire imbalance and vibrations. OK it might have been just one rogue tire, but you really start to wonder about Michelin quality control when you see rather similar reports of problems with PR2s on the iBMW website - again tire imbalance.

Hence if your tire fitter has not managed to get the issue solved to your complete satisfaction after two attempts, then personally I would probably not ask them to fit another set of PR2s as a straight replacement. Instead I would ask them to demount both tires and start by carefully checking the wheels for balance/alignment. If that checks out OK, only then fit the wheels with a pair of new tires but from another brand of tire - eg Bridgestone or Pirelli. - Why? Because its quite possible there is a faulty batch of PR2s out there and its very likely your tire fitter will get all their tires from the same wholesaler who just might have a heap of similarly defective tires - hence switching to a different tire manufacturer - just might save your life!

I bet tire fitter will be very unhappy at meeting the costs, but at least in the EU you have legal rights which means he must ensure any tire he fits is "fit for purpose". I suspect you have a very similar law your side of the Pond. What is clear is that any tire which cannot be satisfactorily balanced is not safe to fit to a motorbike! Hence, I would also make sure he agrees to send the old tires back to Michelin and insist he lets you know what they find. It may be worth mentioning that the whole sorry tale will appear on the Web!

Finally I fully understand your frustration about the scratches - but they are done now and at least they are unlikely to kill you.

Take care


Skimad4x4

 

Rode to work this morning after having the front PR2 replaced with another new tire. However, the bike is not riding as smooth as it did on the highway as it was before I put on the new tires. I start to notice a vibration about about 80 mph and it just gets worse as I go faster. It's not a horrible vibration but it's enough to notice the difference.

I might be splitting hairs here, and if I keep my speed below 75 mph the tires are smooth, however, I'm just not happy with these PR2's.

I may need to go back to the shop and ask for them to fit a different brand of tire, maybe a Bridgestone BT-023.

***Update***

Rode over the to shop at lunch and they are ordering me a set of BT-023 tires to replace the set of PR2s. As I think about the issue I'm having, maybe what I'm noticing is just a much rougher ride at higher speeds with the PR2 tires, but like I said before, the ME Z4s were rock solid and smooth at speeds the PR2's don't instill any confidence to hold a speed of even 85-90 mph. When I had the Metz tires on I didn't think twice if I wanted to hit triple digits, not so with the PR2s, they just get rougher feeling the faster I go over 80 mph.

 

Problem solved. The tire shop removed the PR2's and installed a set of Bridgestone BT-023's. Bike rides smoothly again up into triple digit speeds.

 

Congratulations!
Glad it is solved.

It does create somewhat of a quandry for me since I'm about 9,000 miles into my second set of PR2s. First set lasted 12,000 and I planned on making my next set PR2s as well. I now feel I need to keep a lookout for PR2 problems.
I do think Michelin changed their country of manufacture in the last year or so. Maybe there is a problem with tires from that facility.
My front says made in Thailand, but I didn't see a country of manufacture on the rear. I'll check again tomorrow in daylight to see if it has that info on the tire. A flashlight just isn't that handy.
Update: Both made in Thailand.
I have had no problems with them at any speed including triple digits.

 

I"m just hoping that I will like the Bridgestones as much in the corners and at low speeds as I liked the Michelins.

 

I use a Marc Parnes tire balance tool, and have much more confidence in it than I do a spinning balancer. The spin type balance machine must be calibrated frequently, and used by a technician who knows what he/she is doing. This applies to auto tire balancing as well. I recently had tires mounted on my Jaguar. I selected a Discount Tire store in a nearby town because they have the very good Hunter balance machine. After the tech balanced the first tire, I asked him to rotate the tire on the machines spindle and recheck the balance. It was off by as much as it originally was. The machine was not calibrated. After a talk with the manager, we got the machine calibrated, and I got a good balance on my tires. I would always request that the tech recheck a spin balance after rotating the tire/wheel a half turn on the machine.

 

Thanks for the update - Its really helpful to others on the forum to know how things turn out.

As the Bridgestones seem to have balanced out OK, I think the tire fitter was doing his job OK but being let down by a set of iffy PR2s.

Scary thought a few years back Michelin were having big issues with fake tires originating from China (if you want to know more google it) - I really hope they have not started doing the same trick with motorbike tires! Thats why you must get the old tires sent back to Michelin to examine and hassle the tire fitter until he gives you a copy of their response so you can post it here.]

As for performance I think both tires are dual compound types and aimed at the sport/touring market so should not be hugely different. The Michelins appear to be slightly more sport oriented and use a slightly softer compound giving a lot of grip even with fairly cold tires - the downside being they will wear out quicker. I do huge mileages around Europe but live in a ski resort in the Alps where predictable cornering on cold and slippery roads is essential. I currently run BT23s which seem optimized for my mix of riding and am very happy to get over 10K miles per set.

Its good to hear the problem was sorted out but just make sure you take care over the first few miles and get them scrubbed in before you start exploring the very edge of the tyres.



Skimad4x4

 

Rode 200 miles yesterday and the Bridgeston BT-023 tires felt great! Smooth at all speeds and the feel good in the turns. Seems like there must have been something wrong with the PR2's I had because it is a night and day difference on the highway. After only 250 total miles, I have not worn off the nubs on the tires but am also hoping to get at least 10k out of the set since they are dual compound.