Premium Fuel, Really ?

Just bought a lovely 2010 VFR1200F with 5500 miles on it and love the thing.
Am curious what the Veeferistas say about the mandated fuel grade on the tank sticker.
I know the compression ratio is up there at 12:1 but my 2001 YZFR-1 runs just fine on regular with an appropriate amount of Sta-bil ethanol gas treatment at each fill-up and its CR is 11.8:1. And gets 50 MPG if you ride it with a modicum of restraint (hard to do at times).
What gives ?
Do all you guys really pop for high test at every fill up ?

 

It's not like your filling up a Suburban with a 454 in it. Thinking it is around a buck more a fill up for the good stuff.

 

Depends.. There are places where there is no premium. Otherwise, yes. The question might be is how much/tank is the cost of an appropriate amount of the stabilizer? My Explorer with the Cleveland runs fine on the cheap stuff.

Ya might want to check one of those websites that posts up current fuel prices to save a buck or so.

 

Understood, but it's ALL ethanol.
Ergo, it's all crap.
If you're stuck with ethanol where you live ( and we are in Texas), and you're not using a non-alcohol containing fuel additive to deal with the H2O separation and corrosion, then you're doing your machine's fuel system a serious disservice ( and ultimately damage long term from corrosion).
All premium has that regular doesn't is more pre-ignition inhibitors and a technologically sophisticated system like the VFR1200 should be set up to handle that with ease. Or at least I would have thought that.
But you're right, a few bucks a tankful isn't that big a deal.
I was just curious as to the reason for the requirement.

 

the owners manual calls for 91 octane or higher
this is the section on oxygenated fuel :
Some conventional fuels blended with alcohol
or an ether compound are available in some
locales to help reduce emissions to meet clean
air standards. These gasolines are collectively
referred to as oxygenated fuels. If you plan to
use oxygenated fuel, check that it is unleaded
and meets the minimum octane rating and
blend requirement.
The following fuel blends are EPA-approved
and can be used in your motorcycle:
Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) 1 ●● 0% by volume (max).
Gasoline containing ethanol may be
marketed under the name “Gasohol.”
●●MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether) 15% by
volume (max)
●●Methanol (methyl alcohol) 5% by volume
(max) that contain cosolvents and corrosion
inhibitors to protect the fuel system. Never
use a blend containing more than 5%.
Fuel system or performance problems resulting
from the use of an oxygenated fuel containing
higher percentages are not covered by your
warranty.
NOTICE
Improper use of oxygenated fuels can damage metal,
rubber, and plastic parts of your fuel system.
Oxygenated fuel can also damage paint. Damage caused
by spilled fuel is not covered by warranty.
If you notice any undesirable operating
symptoms or performance problems, try a
different brand of gasoline.

 

Not sure I know if our local fuels are "oxygenated" (I think they might mean the Left coast).
I know they're all 10% ethanol and that means water is what comes out of the solution made by petroleum fuel+ethyl alcohol when it sits for even a short period of time.
I've read with some interest one of the ongoing threads about fueling issues with some member's 2010s and there is mention about consideration for water in the fuel for these vehicles as at least a portion of the problems.
Still, 91 RON is STILL ethanol.
I just thought that Honda would make the 1200 as sophisticated as some of the cars out there that have fire-breathing, massively powerful engines and can run 87 RON due to sophisticated electronics.
No one has been able to tell me why premium is required for the 1200 yet.

 

I fill up with premium just so i can feel like I am rich. I also extend my pinky out at the pump when filling up so everyone knows I am a fancy biker with the taste for finer things in life.

 

We all know that higher octane levels are required to prevent knock. The current breed of sophisticated engines sense when shit fuel is in the system because the engine has knock sensors. So in response to knock, it retards the timing and voila, no problemo right? I guess that is cool if you are happy with less performance due to retarded timing.

I run 87 in our Acura MDX SUV all the time and as you say, it runs fine but I'm loosing HP and fuel economy. It's a trade off essentially. On long trips I give her the good stuff and she rewards me with better economy numbers. There may be more ponies on tap too but I'm rarely using more than 30% of what she has to give so I never feel the difference.

The bike on the other hand sees WOT from time to time so it gets the best available and returns excellent performance along with fuel economy. Win win I say! I'm getting over 50 mpg so what the hell.

 

Now THIS is an answer with which I can live !!
I'll have to remember the pinky extension while I'm filling her up with high test.
Seriously, this is an awesome ST bike and the only bike I own that makes me get out of bed earlier than needed to ride it sooner than planned.

Thanks for all the great replies, boys.

 

Most modern performance Japanese sport bikes call for premium. My last 6 bikes have all called for it. When filling up its an extra dollar to go from 87 to 92 so I've never minded. But then again I don't have the cheap arse gene embedded.

 

I know that ethanol is hygroscopic but any advice on which pinkie to raise would be really helpful. Here in Ogeron, we have folks who pump fuel for us.

 

i thought NJ was the only state that, for safety's sake, required a grade school drop out from Pakistan to pump your gas for you

 

That's your static compression ratio. It really doesn't mean a thing with a running engine because of things like valve overlap and when the intake valve closes. Taking those parameters in consideration and with the right formula you can come up with the Dynamic Compression Ratio. Which is the running cr of any engine. This is any where from 2-4 points lower than the static in most cases. I'd have to find my chart but a DCR over 7.5 or 8;1 will require higher octane definitely with a cast iron head engine and about a point higher for aluminum. Aluminum head motor requires at least 10:1 static to generate/keep enough heat for a good combustion.

The DCR is basically controlled by the cam shaft that is used. A lot depends on when the intake valve closes. Earlier close the higher DCR and visa versa basically. Plus now with the computer controlled timing you can run low octane and not detonate. Though you may be down on power because the timing will have to be retarded to keep out of detonation.

So for an aluminum street motor to have 11:1 or 12:1 and not need high octane also needs a properly designed combustion chamber. Today's engines are better designed and machine compared to even twenty years ago.

 

This. It definitely depends on where you live and how you ride. VFR1200 is equipped with knock sensor, which is why Honda "recommends" premium gasoline but not require it. Octane requirement is not a constant for any engine. It changes with temp, humidity, altitude (really atm pressure), engine load (passenger+ luggage, heavy right wrist, steep hill, etc.), and maintenance (carbon build-up, etc.). Where I live, there ain't no hills, and I ride 100% solo and rarely hammer the throttle. So the colder months of the year I run regular and the VFR does just fine, with no hint of timing retard. On the hottest months here on the Gulf Coast though, I do switch to premium for a little extra insurance.

Most folks worry unnecessarily about ethanol. No, I'd rather not have it in my gasoline, but E10 is pretty much here to stay. I have run umpteen miles on all kinds of cars and bikes without a problem. As long as you don't let the gas sit in the tank for a long time and it degrades, your bikes, particularly the FI ones, will tolerate it just fine. Small engines with simple carbs (generators, lawn mower, weedies, etc.) are a different story.

 

When I lived there, I used to pump my own gas in my bikes. Once every blue moon a pump jockey would come over to me and offer to fill my tank, now; being the macho-ass-hole I was (am) thought 1: he was a homo 2: a very stupid individual with the IQ of one the grape-fruits that used to grow on my trees in the trailor park. The analogy I spouted off to him was, "filling my gas tank, would be like you shaking the dew off my lilly when I went wee-wee."

I am sold on non-ethanol gas period! It don't stink as much and the added bonus of not having the water issues, its only a few more dollars a tank so who cares...Nuff-Sed...

 

Be careful or you will spoil the image of New Yorkers knowing everything.

 

Been running "gasohol" in the mach 1 91 since day one. Same in a much warmed up airhead BMW and a bored out SR500. Should I be concerned on which one is going to blow first or is this all just more BS? Same in the 1200 too. Off to Walmart to buy some earplugs..

 

Any takers on that last part?

 

Any time one of these threads comes up with the mention of ethanol, it gets me boiling. Ask anybody in the boating/marine industry, and they can spout off on it - as I can.

So not addressing the OP's concern about RON, here's the reality about ethanol.

There are 2 issues. The first, as mentioned, is Phase Separation. Basically, the alcohol that is (in) ethanol has a tendency to attract water. When fuel is left untreated or sits for a given period of time, enough water gathers within the fuel system that the water starts to separate from the gas (i.e. the density of the water). Anyone who's ever seen gas spilled on water knows that gas is lighter than water. So, as the "phase separation" occurs, all the water that's in your tank sinks to the bottom. Now you go and fire up your lovely machine, and guess what? it sucks in all the water, and you got no go-power.

There are certain things that can speed up the process of phase separation. Quick changes in temperature cause condensation. So those 80 degree days followed by 40-50 degree nights can wreak havoc. Being in a humid area is another (and again why boaters have such an issue with it - because, duh!! most boats are always around water). Phase separation can occur in as little as two weeks, but the use of a quality fuel stabilizer can delay this for up to a year or so.

The second issue with ethanol, as alluded to above, is that its alcohol. As far as I know, none of the fuels treatments out there "remove" alcohol. What they do is stop the phase separation. But alcohol has a natural tendency to dry things out. So even treated fuel still has alcohol running through it (or sitting in it when left unused). The alcohol eventually starts to deteriorate rubber hoses and gaskets. Next thing you know, you get a little grain of rubber that clogs a jet or injector, and now you have a pain in the ass repair to do.

Somewhere around 2002 to 2006 (I can't recall) almost all vehicles (boats, bikes, cars, etc.) did not take into consideration the affects of ethanol. These vehicles are more likely to have issues down the road. Nowadays, there are different hoses and material being used that are (supposedly) impervious to the affects of the alcohol as well.

For those that hate ethanol: either Google a search of ethanol free gas in your area, or try your marina. Often times marinas are exempt for the ethanol-mandatory laws. Of course not anywhere near me in NJ. Even the damn marinas have ethanol.

And I ain't letting nobody pump gas into my bike or boat, even though its the law in NJ (and WA).

Bottom line: Fuck ethanol.

 

BBOs (Bitchy Boat Owners) Right on about the various specific gravities and stratification. Oregon has station attendants. If ya pull in with a bike they let you pump the gas. Some even make sure there is no fuel that is going to drip on your tank.. Pumping is the extent of the service except in rural areas.

No boat!! Yaaaaay!! Adios-sayonara-bye-bye-Aloha-Auf however it's spelt.