Matt Tries – 1984 VF500F Overhaul

Discussion in '1st & 2nd Generation 1983-1989' started by Colddevil, Feb 14, 2020.

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  1. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    Thanks for all the suggestions. Diving Pete, one of my worries was that I installed the seal backwards, but I don't actually think it's possible with this kit as the seal is attached to the top of the spring.

    I've been going through old pictures trying to figure out what I missed, and I bet this is it... And I may have wasted some of your time reading through that. I haven't pulled up that little tab to verify that second port isn't clogged. In fact, I forgot about it. When I started this, the MC was caked in crystallized brake fluid. That vent being clogged would seemingly explain the behavior.
    masterCylinder.JPG

    Will give this another cleaning and verify that that hole is not clogged. This time with a long soak in solvent, then ultrasonic, and then I'll run fishing line through that hole. raYzerman, if I can get this operating correctly, I'll try to the zip tie method to drain out remaining air. I've never done that before.

    I don't think this is the issue since the pistons and seals are new, and they're sliding well. This is good to know though because I'm certain I'll run into this in the future at some point.
     
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  2. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    You have spent far too much time not pulling that master apart and verifying your work. Especially knowing that your master was shit and you never verified all the holes were clear. Especially the one called "Bleed Hole".

    Bite the bullet and take that shit apart.
     
  3. straycat

    straycat Member

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    Surprised that didn't come clean when you put the MC in the ultrasonic cleaner. (twice?)
     
  4. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    It started from a really bad spot. It's not that I haven't tried to go and verify that all the orifices weren't clean... it's that I was misunderstanding the how a master cylinder exchanged air for fluid. I can have the MC off the bike and internals pulled in less than ten minutes. I wasn't removing the deflector piece and only realized that looking from old photos after another user mentioned it. Obviously that sounds stupid now because why would there be a deflector piece if there wasn't a bleed hole under it.

    I don't think I'll have any issues once that's unclogged.
     
  5. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    If you ever try and bleed the brakes when you forget to re-install the hood, you'll know immediately (providing it is clear).

    Luckily I had towels covering everything. "Fuck fuck fuck fuck!!!!!"
     
  6. straycat

    straycat Member

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    Well I sure hope that solves your problem, let us know, were all anxiously awaiting the results
     
  7. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    I've got some brake pressure now.

    So I pulled off the master cylinder from the VF500 for another inspection and cleaning. I was surprised to see that the bleed hole was actually not clogged--tried it when it was on the bike and saw how it kind of shoots fluid upward and what the deflector is for. I ran it through the ultrasonic with Simple Green Extreme at ~15:1 water to cleaner ratio for 20 minutes.

    While this was going on, I needed to satisfy my curiosity that it was the master cylinder and not something else. I pulled off the master cylinder from my FZR, and I threw it on the VF500, and I was able to get pressure pretty quick. Pushed the caliper pistons all the way onto the rotors thinking that might help pressurizing with the VF500 master cylinder.

    2020-04-20 19.15.32.jpg
    I cleaned the master cylinder with carburetor cleaner and compressed air afterward. I put it on the bike, and I was thrilled to see the first bubble I've ever noticed come from under the deflector from the bleed hole. I assembled this no differently than any time before, but maybe I did something different I didn't realize. I know it looks rough, but I really don't know how I can get it much cleaner than this.

    2020-04-20 19.30.21.jpg

    Anyway, I was able to get brake pressure into it after pumping for maybe 100 pumps. So that's great news. It's still pretty soft, but I haven't done an actual bleed of the system yet. Want to wait til I can get all the bubbles to come up from the lines, then I'll bleed later this week and see how stiff I can get the lever. I'll be joining your point in the struggle, Straycat, with the stiffening of the lever.
     
  8. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    My rear tire has had a slow leak for a while, and I assumed it was a faulty stem. Wrestled the rear off with some levers to find that the inside of the wheel was painted with the same low quality paint that's chipping off the rest of the bike. Spent a few hours and about 10 or so Dremel bits pulling the paint off the wheel lip to hopefully get a better seal. Replaced the stem as well.

    The parts that I thought were going to take a while went fairly smooth--removing the old tire and adding the new one. The removing of paint and setting the bead on the other hand... I could not get this bead to pop into place for hours. Ratchet strap, hair dryer, soapy water, bouncing the tire... I finally got it to go by pulling the valve core and setting my compressor to 60PSI after doing all the before mentioned things. The tires are rated for 42 PSI and I didn't feel comfortable going any higher. Well, quite frankly, I didn't feel comfortable at 60PSI... I wore my helmet and jacket as I inflated it. I'd read about people going a lot higher than that, but I don't know enough to know whether or not that's a good idea.

    wheelLip.jpg

    2020-04-26 17.04.44.jpg

    At least the new tire looks pretty sweet. Hoping it holds air. Not worried about the paint on it since I'd like to have the wheels blasted and powder coated in the future.

    2020-04-26 19.38.59.jpg
     
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  9. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    Yeah, that tire looks good. Nice job.
     
  10. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    LUBE...……………………
    &
    TEMP...…………………..

    Hi, I set my regulator at 95psi. Its all about lube & if the rubber is warm..

    I've had issues with some tyres before - and seriously think an oven might be the correct cure.. Don't forget if you are using soapy water & a hairdryer then you will lose some of that assistance. That's why I switched to Tyre Wax.
    Also some times you need more volume into the tyre - if the tyres not seated then there is no pressure in it...
    My compressor is 16cfm.

    ALWAYS PULL THE CORE - its all about getting the volume into the tire.
    Always replace the valve stem with new - you can get a bag of 50 shorties for cents....
    I get the tested versions...

    Change about 5-10 tyres a year.. (also do car tyres)

    However some tyres are just a pain - lol...
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2020
  11. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    This sounds terrifying, lol. Though if I would have just jumped to 60PSI right away, I probably would have saved myself a lot of frustration.

    I did eventually figure out to pull the valve core, though my issue wasn't with dumping air in quick. I'll look into some different lubrication methods since I've got a few more tires to do in the next few weeks.
     
  12. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    Before I go any further, does anyone have advice on how to loosen the front axle once the wheel is off the bike? The manual I have just says to hold one side and loosen the other. Nothing special. Well, the flats on the "hold" side are... not great. A 17mm fits on them but it's not great. I have to use a crescent on the other side since I don't have a 22mm wrench, and my deep sockets aren't deep enough.

    Is there anything special I'm missing like left-hand threads or something? Should I look into putting it in a vice? I'm not sure I can get that much force on it with the 17mm holding the flats without rounding it.

    1.JPG
    2.JPG
     
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  13. OTyler

    OTyler New Member

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    I have the same problem! Hopefully someone can chime in here. The FSM just says “remove bolt”, not very helpful. Once I get my chain in i’m going to reattach one side back to the bike, but I am still hesitant to use more force than I already am. The 17mm crescent holding the flats starts slipping around the axel while I am using a 4ft breaker bar.
     
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  14. Captain 80s

    Captain 80s Member

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    The 17mm side is known to round off often. The 22mm side needs the tool from the OEM kit. They are normal threads but don't get serviced often enough to prevent them from getting hard to loosen.

    [​IMG]

    The hack is too have an extra fork lower where you can clamp the 17mm side and loosen it together with the factory 22mm tool.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
  15. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Correct Impact tools make all the difference in this case. Not a impact drill however.
     
  16. jeremyr62

    jeremyr62 New Member

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    Yep. I had the same problem so it's common enough. Some kind of clamp and good spanner and brute force eventually freed mine up.
     
  17. straycat

    straycat Member

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    Had lots of this happen on my old Hondas. I get it off every time, by removing the wheel with the axle in place then setting the wheel on some lumber, hollow axle nut facing up, filling the axle nut with quality penetrating oil and heating the o/s of the nut with a butane torch. Repeated cycles of this will free it up. Sometimes you may have to place one end in the Vice (use soft jaws) and use a deep socket on the other (note you may need to use a 22mm impact socket to find one deep enough).

    ** Safety note *** the penetrating oil will boil in-side the nut cavity. it will ignite if you hit it with the open flame of the torch, so avoid that, and do it out side to be safe.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2020
  18. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    So this was just brilliant. I never would have considered using the trashed lower I have as a clamp. Worked like a charm. If that didn't work, I think a vice would have also sufficed for someone without a spare lower.

    1.JPG

    Would have loved to have used an impact here. I specifically bought a Ryobi 1/2" impact wrench earlier this year because I've had issues with breaking sprocket bolts loose on other bikes and figured I'd rather pay the $120 for the right tool vs rounding out hardware again. I used it recently for the first time and am kicking myself for not buying one earlier.

    The problem (for this bike) is that I think you'd need a super deep socket as nothing I had was deep enough. All 3 of the 22mm sockets I had weren't even close. Need another centimeter--at least with what I have tried.

    2.JPG

    I'm glad it didn't come to the heat cycles and penetrating fluid, but thank you for the suggestion. I'll keep that in mind if i hit a similar situation and get stumped. I'm also going to keep my eyes open for a deeper deep 22mm socket.

    3.JPG

    Thank you for the suggestions and advice everyone. Got it mounted back on the bike. I made special attention to clean up both the bead mating area of the wheel and the ledge perpendicular to it with my dremmel. Soaped it up, and the bead popped on at 60 PSI both sides first try. That was such a relief.
     
  19. Colddevil

    Colddevil New Member

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    In a weekend full of motorcycle losses, at least I managed to get one thing figured out that had stumped previously. I managed to remove the Vance and Hines exhaust system with a good bit of penetrating fluid and vigorous wiggling. I have two stainless steel exhaust clamps I bought to hopefully keep the exhaust from falling down from the 1/3 downpipes. Currently treating them to an Evapo-Rust bath before I take to them with a wire wheel and sandpaper to get them ready for some VHT primer and paint.

    1.JPG
    2.JPG

    Now onto some of the recent losses. I went to bleed the brakes to try to stiffen up the front brakes. As soon as I cracked the bleeder, I lost all brake pressure and wasn't able to rebuild it. Stumped, I went to my Bandit and bled the brakes just to prove I'm at least doing the procedure right, and I had no issues. And I had no issues on the VF when I was using a different master cylinder. So I gave in and ordered a reproduction master cylinder. So we'll see if that's the issue.

    My major headache this weekend was not directly related to a Honda Interceptor, but it was encouraged on by one of my VF triumphs. I actually had very little trouble removing and replacing the bias ply 16 and 18" VF500 tires onto the rims--my issue was setting the bead because I'm a pussy. Encouraged on by those successes, I took to my Suzuki Bandit. Jesus Christ. A 160/60 radial rear is an entirely different thing. I was unable to do it (so far). I spent a day with spoons, realized I wasn't getting anywhere, and decided to rig up the Harbor Freight tire changer I bought a few months ago. And I spent most of Saturday modifying that piece of shit with Mojolevers to use with the Mojoblocks. I also learned that my basement is only 3" of concrete deep. Yea, I drilled right through that. So I put a couple drop-in anchors in my garage. (I like these drop-in anchors! never heard of them before). I will say the bead breaker actually works fantastic though.

    I think I understand the concept of why I wasn't able to spoon it over now. I need the lip of the tire to drop into the drop center of the wheel on the opposite side or else I'll never get it over. I was really afraid I was actually going to start damaging the tire so I gave up Sunday morning and decided to do research instead. I need something to keep the opposite side lip inside the drop center. Spent too much on Motion Pro accessories that hopefully show up and bring me to the promised land next weekend.

    3.JPG

    And lastly... I joined the ranks of selling a vehicle. I sold my 1992 Yamaha FZR this weekend. I put it up for $900 at 10PM Thursday night and woke up to ten offers in the morning. I received another ~20 before it was officially sold. I'd been trying to talk myself into selling it for two years now, but I couldn't do it. But I got a bug up my butt after watching so many Dave Moss videos that I want to get a track bike to truly learn how to ride and get over my fears of leaning... and that FZR wasn't the bike to do it. So it was time to prove to myself I could actually sell a motorcycle instead of just buying them.

    Mechanically, the bike is pretty good, but man it is a cosmetic mess. And it is extremely raw. I inherited a bit of a mess when I bought it for $900 as my second motorcycle, and I didn't do it too many favors. But it was the first bike I ever really wrenched on, and I gave it a pretty good going-over this winter, and I've had a lot of fun memories riding it. When I dropped it off, I told the owner I'd take $800 as long as he promised to use the discount on a new battery and battery tender. He seemed pretty happy with the goofy little mess of an FZR just like I was 5 years ago.

    lastPic.JPG

    So yea. Next post I have should resume normal sub-amateur VF500F tinkering. Hopefully with a painted and reinstalled Vance and Hines exhaust system with a working front brake system.
     
  20. Tim Kratz

    Tim Kratz New Member

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