Magna V30 - Ticking noise: Valve clearance or cam journal??

Hi there, I have a 1985 VF500C with ~51k on it (although I was told the engine had been redone ~8k ago, but no proof of that except its good condition). I have enjoyed that bike so far, and it runs strong.
Anyway, for a while now, I have a ticking noise in the front cylinder (#4) and had some techs came over to adjust/check the valve clearances (was a bit scared to pop the top myself at first). They struggled a bit to do it, but after reading the Clymer manual we kind of manage to adjust all the valves...except cylinder #4! They set the right clearance specified by manual (.004 inlet/.005 outlet), turned the engine a couple times over by rotating the back wheel by hand, and the specs had changed (valves were loosen). They told they couldn't really get cylinder #4 well adjusted and noticed that the cam journal might be worn out (not sure I understand why at that point). It appears also that cylinder #1 has some wears too, but there is no valve ticking.

So the noise is still present (and might even be a bit stronger to my hear), and as a next step they propose to change the head (all of them actually to be safe). I was wondering if there were other things to test/try before rebuilding a new head? I have started to read some interesting stuff on this forum, but I am not sure where to start. For example: do I need to use the special tool to hold the camshaft in place while testing the clearance? shall I try a different technique? Some other parts to check? ...

Any suggestions are welcomed.

PS: If some of you know where I can get the Factory Service Manual for this bike, that would be great. Clymer is good but seem to have some typos in it.

 

Haa I messed up my numbers. This is actually cylinder #2
Did people have similar issues around here? I am new to VFRworld and hope I can get some infos/opinions.
Thanks

 

First off you need new techs.

Did they remove the timing cover.
Did they remove the spark plugs and make sure when adjusting the valves that the engine was on the compression stroke of that cylinder? And on the mark.

Why would you turn the back wheel to get the engine in position??
You should be using a socket to turn over the engine while it is in neutral and the spark plugs are out.

You need to do it over, and do it right.

How could you tell if a cam journal was worn out without taking the cylinder head completely apart and measuring all the parts?

A valve that is too tight (usually exhaust valves) won't make any noise, and will cause early valve failure.

Do not be removing cylinder heads yet! cheeeessshhh.

Did they do a compression check first?
Where is the proof you need a rebuild of the cylinder heads?

Go to Ebay and get a workshop manual.

This needs a complete work up.
FIRST adjust the valves properly.
TWO Do a compression check-properly.


THEN evaluate.

 

Welcome!

First step, sell the Clymer and purchase a used copy of the FSM. I would recommend eBay as a source for finding these. A clean copy should set you back $25 + shipping.

The camshaft holder tool is not required. I would recommend purchasing the OEM offset wrench and tappet adjusting tool. Use two long blade feeler gauges, one placed under each tappet.

The FSM will have detailed instructions on checking the cam journals.

Good luck with your project and please keep us posted.

 

Factory Service Manual only! :smile: btw its not a sin to bump the engine over by turning the rear wheel. Just get it in sixth gear. BMW recommends this method, might be ok if you got a center stand and the bike chucked up on a lift, other wise you you should use the socket on the end of the crank method.

 

A few photos of the Factory Tools, for reference:

 

Some additional info on inspecting the cam journals (from the '84 VF500F FSM)

 

Wow, Thanks for the info/tips everyone, and for the pictures!

To answers previous questions:
@ Invisible cities: I will get a FSM for it on ebay right away. The prices are more in the $40-$50 range as far I can tell. What is the original cover supposed to look like? Something like that: Honda Service Manual 84-85 VF500 C | eBay Do you have also the pages for the valve clearance procedure?
So you are saying that the camshaft holder tool is not required? How do you make sure then that the valve actuators don't 'rock' in the head under adjustment (http://www.math.uwaterloo.ca/~rblander/v4/valve_adjust/step_four.html)? Is that because you use two long blade feeler gauges instead of one at a time? Enlighten me :tongue:

@ donald branscom: No they did not remove the timing cover as they put the bike on 6th gear and turned the engine over with the back wheel. This works ok I guess, except when you don't go in opposite direction of what it normally turns in. Yes they made sure the cylinder to check was on TDC (Top Dead Center) position, and the mark ok (as specified in Clymer manual).

So first I will recheck the valve clearance when I get the tools and manual. Then a compression test (why would this contribute to the ticking btw?)

Keep in touch.

 

Hey I have an 84' 500f that has a tick coming from the same approximate region. I just pulled the carbs but am somewhat nervous about going deeper. Does the engine have to be pulled for the required procedures here?

GL with the fix

P

 

This may sound stupid, but your situation sounds like one I was in. I changed my engine oil... no more ticking.

Good luck.

brian

 

No need to remove the engine. You just need to remove some parts to be able to remove the head covers, and you should be able to do it from there.
In my case, the oil is new, so I know it's not from here

My understanding thus far (to be confirmed) is that the special tool is not needed. You got to do the adjustment between the cam lobe and rocker arm (ValveTrain/ValveClearanceAdjustment - SabMagFAQ).