Got some new farkles today...

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by TNRabbit, Jun 20, 2014.

  1. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    VFRness bundle & a Powerlet steering head plug kit from Joshua @ wiremybike.com:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    ...and a powerlet--to-dual-USB adapter from amazon.com:

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    It's supposed to rain Saturday so I know what I'll be doing in the garage~
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2014
  2. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    TNRabbit, on 21 Jun 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

    Up front, I wanted to let everyone know that my system charges like a champ & all my connectors are OEM and look like new. I chose to install the VFRness & fuse harness as a preventative measure & don't like jury-rigging electrical connections to a tail light like SO MANY do~

    For some reason, half the pictures I took didn't show up on the camera, so sorry there's not more detail.

    Well, whoever said there was a lot of wire to tuck into place was right~

    [​IMG]

    First of all, Joshua has been GREAT, but these instruction suck-a-bag-of-dicks. PICTURES are needed!! The instructions say to thread the harness down & around the bottom of the battery box; I don't know what the hell that means! I finally gave up & tucked them however best I could as shown above. The key is to get the positive battery connection in a good position to match up with the positive terminal while getting the R/R connections to fit in between the frame rail, and connecting the green ground wire to a suitable location (instructions said to use the front R/R bolt which I did...I sanded off the paint around the hole & used OxGuard for a good connection). Other than that, it really doesn't matter where the wires go.

    Second, the instructions say to REMOVE the battery cover--a PITA to do & not necessary. Just flip it up & out of the way--a bungee to hold it out of the way is valuable here (those wires were to the voltage meter & were incorporated into the new fuse block/harness).

    [​IMG]

    Remove all the fuses in the harnesses, including the 30 amp in the bike, BEFORE you begin in order to avoid accidentally finding a ground source with one of the positive wires~
    In this pic, the factory main fuse is in the white fuse terminal with red wiring on the left:

    [​IMG]

    This should go without saying, but be especially careful when dealing with the positive battery terminal (I use a 10 mm socket on a 10" extension) -- good place to melt the beejeezus out of a tool if you contact the frame while touching the + terminal.

    I used OxGuard on EVERY DAMN CONNECTION, including the fuses. Don't have any issues & don't want any.

    Get some small zip ties & use them liberally to keep everything in place.

    I LOATHE these types of connectors but ended up using one on the license plate positive wire for the sake of getting this done (it was 2 in the morning & I couldn't locate a better switched wire to connect to). This wire is for the fuse harness relay so it is an extremely low current draw & I wasn't too worried about drawing any significant power. I plan to goop sealer all around it to avoid any issues as this area does get some dirt/water thrown up from the rear tire.

    [​IMG]

    You'll only need to remove the plug between the R/R & the wiring harness; the plug from stator to R/R stays in place. You basically inserting the VFRness in between the R/R & factory wiring harness to give a direct-to-battery path with heavy wiring. In the picture below, the bottom connector goes to the R/R & the top goes to the factory harness plug you just unplugged from the R/R:

    [​IMG]

    Sorry that wasn't more clear; like I said I took a bunch of pics but they didn't show up (user error probably~).

    If anyone doing this has questions, please PM me & I can walk you through it over the phone.
     
  3. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    NOT HAPPY right now. Got everything connected & my charging voltage has dropped from 14.4 to 13.8!! Not only that, but I'm only getting 9 volts at the output on the Powerlet run to the steering stem....

    SO, I disconnected everything & put it back as it was yesterday before I started and my charging voltage is still only 13.8 (or lower)!!!

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!

    *steaming*
     
  4. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    OK guys....need some help. I'm due to lead a ride at 9 a.m. tomorrow morning and I need to get this thing fixed.

    I've removed all the VFRness connections & gone back to the original connectors. I'm getting 17-86 volts AC at the stator output, and 16.5 (??) volts DC at the R/R output. I'm only seeing 13.5 volts at the battery & fuse panel.

    In addition, I'm only getting 9 volts DC at the powerlet plug in the steering stem.

    Obviously there is a bad connection somewhere....I'm guessing a ground somewhere was knocked loose when I was installing everything Any other suggestions from those with electrical troubleshooting experience?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2014
  5. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    When you say you are getting 16.5 vdc at the output of the R/R, is it connected to the bike or you reading just output? If connected to bike and it reads 16.5 at R/R and anything less at the battery + terminal, faulty connector some where in the path to battery.
    If you suspect bad ground, with your meter on the ground terminal of the battery, check the power outlet, if 9 volts, then problem with hot side wiring. If you get full voltage, try putting ground lead of meter on some point on chassis or engine, if less than with lead on battery, then bad ground between battery and chassis. I can help you through this.
     
  6. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I just read the label on your Lithium battery, charging voltage shouldn't be over 15 volts. So 14.4 would be fine. I asked it R/R was connected, because putting a load on it (battery) should bring it down some.
     
  7. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    Stator & R/R readings were done at the output with the connector off (disconnected). I have a 3 volt power drop from the R/R output to the battery. I've double check all connections I can identify in that path & can't for the life of me figure out what the hell happened.

    I cleaned all connections & added OxGuard, thought maybe that was he problem....went back & cleaned it all off...no change.

    The battery has a standing voltage of between 13.2 & 13.7 volts with everything off. Whan I turn the key, it drops to 12.8-12.9 just as it did before. However, when I start it, it never gets above 13.7 volts (5k rpm) and drops to as low as 13.4 (idle). Before this, I had a steady 14.4 throughout most of the RPM range.

    I'm stumped. As of right now, I'm out of the ride tomorrow.

    Ideas?
     
  8. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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  9. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    Except for your peer port, I don't see the problem. Normal batteries have 6 cells, each cell puts out 2.1 vdc or 12.6 total. Your R/R is doing it's job, keeping output voltage in line. Doesn't mean what it was doing before was correct. Why cancel the ride?
     
  10. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    Peer port?

    This is a Lithium Ion battery & as you noticed it requires between 14 & 15 volts to charge. I'm not going to go out with a problem on my only mode of transportation until I figure out what's wrong.

    I was reliably getting a rock solid 14.4 volt charge for weeks until I tried to install this VFRness....not very happy about that at the moment~
     
  11. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    Ideas, anybody?
     
  12. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    Sorry about the typo, I meant Powerlet. The standard non-series R/R is the only part of the electrical system that can change the voltage based on load, the un-used power is shunted to ground. Could be that the battery is now fully charged and the load on the R/R reduced, thus shunting some power to ground. Here is an article on R/Rs:

    [FONT=&amp]Here is the SIGNIFICANT difference - this new R/R is SERIES - [/FONT]not[FONT=&amp] SHUNT!! [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]Why is that of benefit? The difference between Series & Shunt is that: [/FONT]

    Shunt[FONT=&amp] -the Stator always has to apply maximum generated current - when the R/R is in regulation it shorts across the winding to 'shunt' current away from the load directly back to the stator. In an SCR (OEM) Shunt Regulator the SCRs get extremely hot and they ultimately burn out if that heat is not adequately cooled - that is why OEM needs to up front directly in the cooling path. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]Because of the way it operates,if you reduce the system load (e.g. turn off the lights) the R/R will actually have to shunt MORE current and will run hotter - but the stator load is thesame regardless of whether the current is going to the load, or back through the SCR's. [/FONT]

    Series[FONT=&amp] -this is fundamentally different in that in a Series design, instead ofdiverting (shunting) excess current back to the stator to control the output voltage, the regulation works by interrupting the current path to the load.This means that the Regulator ONLY supplies current demanded by the load itself, and no excess current parallel path through a shunt. So the net resultis that this type of Regulator is MUCH kinder on the stator because the stator is always supplying much less current! So the stator does not get so hot andits reliability increases significantly. [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]The fact that it has SCR's is not quite so problematic as in the Shunt application, because they are flowing less current and for a shorter duration. So they will not get as hot as when used in shunt mode. [/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp] Here are some test results comparing my old shunt SH-232 R/R to the series SH-775.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]Disclaimer- I have no idea how accurate my ac current clamp meter is at frequencies above 60 Hz; I know it'saccurate on 3 phase 60 Hz stuff. I suspect it might be pretty good at 120 Hz(1200 rpm), but at 400 Hz, who knows.[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]On the good old SH-232; [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]at 1200 rpm, stator line current = 6.5 amp ; R/R output 12.8 volts DC[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]at 4000 rpm, stator line current = 11 amp; R/R output 14.2 volts DC[/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]On the SH-775[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]at 1200 rpm, stator line current = 6.7 amp; R/R output 13.0 volts DC[/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]at 4000 rpm, stator line current = 6.8 amp; R/R output 14.2 volts DC[/FONT]

    [FONT=&amp]With the SH-775, turning off headlight, resulted in an immediate drop of stator line current to 3.5 amp at 1200 rpm.

    [/FONT]
    I installed a SH-775 on the recommendation of roadstercycle.com because I am running LED headlights with a greatly reduced load. I also hard wired stator wires to R/R and by-passed Honda's output wiring with two #10 wires back to the battery, thus eliminating Honda's connectors in the high current circuits.
     
  13. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    If that's true it would have happened with the old harness as well, right? NOTHING changed except installing the VFRness, then the voltage at the battery during charge (running) dropped to 13.5. Took out the VFRness & it remained at 13.5 since. Was ALWAYS 14.4 before.
     
  14. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    If the cause of the voltage drop is due to some unknown resistance in the wiring, then you should be able to measure voltage drop with your meter. Start with + wire closest to R/R, put one lead there and the other on the positive post of the battery. 0 volts means good connections, if there is a voltage, narrow it down by eliminating connection points. Same with - side.

    Strange & frustrating.
     
  15. TNRabbit

    TNRabbit New Member

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    Weird fix. I soldered an additional 10" pigtail onto the powerlet harness ground & grounded it directly to the frame at a better point. Nowhave 13.2 volts at the powerlet plug & 14.2 at ccharge. That's down .2 from before but at this point I'm glad to take it. Been stressing hard the past couple of days~
     
  16. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    I just put new spark plugs in and while I had seat off took some voltage readings on mine. Battery is a new Yusa 1 month old, and I have SH-775 series R/R. 12.8 vdc across battery, 12.4 with ignition on, 14.1 vdc while running, rock solid at all rpm. Shut off after 30 secs, battery up to 13.4 and 13 with ignition on. Sounds like you fixed problem, no substitution for heavy gauge wiring at 12 volts! Hope you get to ride today too.

    Sounds like poweroutlet was finding ground through another device.
     
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