Firing issues!

Hello all!

I've owned my VFR for about a month now and I have had some problems with it from the very first day...

I bought it from a private seller and he seemed like a genuine guy, shown me the bike, fired it up and everything seemed to be in good working order.
However, I rode the bike home from his (80 mile trip) and stopped for fuel 2 miles after leaving his house.
Upon returning to the bike after paying, it wouldn't start, it was just "clicking" from under the seat - as if the battery was dead.
The person I bought it off came out to give me a hand and gave me a jump and it fired up first time and off I went.

I made it 60 miles of the journey (I might like to add that it was night time and raining the entire journey) and on approach to a set of traffic lights, I clicked down into first and that was it, dead.
It was having the same clicking issue from the battery.
I ended up waiting an hour for the recovery and they took me home.

I messaged the guy and he said he believes it may be a battery issue as it had been sat in his garage for 6 months with no charge and a Datatool attached. He had given me the receipt for the battery so I was able to swap it free of charge at Halfords and since then, it has run perfectly - no issues starting or running at all.

I use the bike on a daily commute and the occasional leisure ride. I travel about 15 miles a day for the commute.
Now, since owning it, this was the first day it had been heavily raining all day and it unfortunately has to sit in the rain whilst in work. I went to start it when leaving work and it started clicking for about 2 seconds whilst holding the ignition switch and then all of a sudden fired up no problems.

I rode it home, no issues on the way back but once I got back, it died again and now I am unable to start it at all without the clicking.
Whenever I tried to fire it up, all lights would illuminate etc but the click did reset to 1am both times. ALSO, the FI light came on too.

I have done diagnostics tests after the first issue and the voltages and things indicate that the stator and RR should be fine, but I have been advised to check the connections... Would anyone be able to confirm this? Or am I barking up the wrong tree?


Regards

 

Also to add, I have the '98 FI model!

 

Firstly I guess its right to start by extending a welcome to the MadHouse :welcome:

When you get time please drop by the introductions sub-forum and say hello to the rest of the folks and tell us a bit about you and your VFR. Don't forget to add at least one photo of your VFR or it won't be long before folks start raggin on you!

It is always rather sad when your first post on the forum is to seek help with a problem. So where to start.

Hopefully it won't be too long before some of the other 800fi owners chip in but the big thing to worry about with the early 800s was the gauge of the wiring and connectors to the stator which had a habit of toasting. However that clicking sound is probably the starter relay contacts engaging - or at least trying to - which in turn points to a drained battery, and the question why?

To help rule things out - check the battery volts with the bike turned off - are they somewhere in the healthy 12.7-13.5 range? Does the bike have an alarm? Did you accidentally leave the parking lights on? Are the battery terminals clean and securely fastened?

Its not clear how familiar you are with bikes - but as you have two, it seems reasonable to assume you have some idea how the bike's electrics are meant to work, and will be OK with related techy speak.

The fact the clock is resetting also suggests the battery volts are dropping too low and it is mostly discharged, which on the 98s points at a charging system fault - which has been covered numerous times on here. The main things to check are explained in the thread linked below so there is no point repeating stuff..

http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthre...gulator-Stator-failures?highlight=rubo+stator

If you need help interpreting the results - post them up and we will get back to you.

I have a horrible feeling that when you know where to look you will indeed find some burnt out connectors/wiring near the stator - as it is a known fault.

If that fails to identify any problem and the battery is good and healthy then you need to rule out problems with the safety interlocks. I am not sure what "safety interlocks" were fitted on the 98s, but it is possible you have some sort of intermittent fault in one of those components which can also prevent the starter from engaging. So that is probably why others have recommended you check the whole starting and charging circuit. Remember your bike is getting on for 16 years old and if it is parked outside in all weathers its only to be expected that things are starting to go south.

Track down a diagram of the starting and charging circuits and work methodically through each component - using a multi-meter to check the various switch gear is working correctly, cleaning and reassembling anything which shows signs of corrosion. On later bikes the Kill-switch, clutch and side-stand switches can all prevent a bike starting also make sure the neutral light shows - when selected.

Good luck and let us know what you find.





SkiMad

 

Thank you for the such comprehensive reply and the warm welcome there I shall head over there for my introduction shortly!
I've had a load test on the battery and it's good, put it on a charge overnight and it is giving good reading but I'm still getting the issues. I've checked the stator connections and they all seem good, no signs of and corrosion or being toasted. There is a Datatool fitted to the bike also. The installer seems to have done a botch job of it though - where they have installed an LED near the back seat, a lot of water seems to get under the seat, however it only touched the rear light connectors which haven't had any issues. I've checked the earth block and there are no signs of corrosion at all.
Bike has only done 17000 miles and it's kept in a garage and it is pristine - previous owner worker for Honda which I would hope they would take extra care of it!

 

Simply by pass the start circuits, get some heavy duty power cable and run direct from battery to starter motor + input! with bike turned on the start should crank & bike start. If it does then the fault is in the relay to starter cabling or the relay itself . If no crank then the fault could be the earth side or the starter motor. The starter is under the front of the engine exposed to road spray & I have seen a few that have corroded the starter cable bolt right off ! It's supposed to be insulated, but the wet & corrosion might be surface earthing the power. Check the cabling from relay to starter is good clean & un damaged first.

 

OK so you can hear a clicking sound when you press the start button but it fails to turn over. I take it all the gauges are lighting up and you can hear the fuel injection pump priming when you move the key to the ignition on position? If so it sounds like it may be a faulty starter relay, an interlock issue or heaven forbid an alarm fault.

As I said, you really need to track down a diagram of the staring and charging system for your bike, unfortunately I only have one for the vtec bikes which may be misleading.

Anyway, assuming they work in a broadly similar manner, then when you press the start button - it should energise the trigger side of the starter motor relay via a daisy chain of switches designed to stop you doing stupid things like starting the bike in gear. The down side is if any of those components go wrong the bike will not start.

As a first check, I would remove the seat and find out for sure where that clicking noise is coming from.

Start by checking the starter relay - just follow the thick red wire from the battery which should go direct to the relay.

Go through the normal start routine and check for certain whether the clicking noise you can hear is coming from that relay or elsewhere. If you are not sure - put your finger on the insulated side of the relay and operate the start button and you should be able to feel the relay contacts moving.

If it definitely moving, then disconnect the battery, and then physically pull the relay out to inspect it closely - check the main fuse(s) - I suspect there is a 30amp one inside the relay housing, or tucked beside the battery. Make sure all the terminals are clear and free from corrosion. Take a note of what plugs in where and then disconnect the relay from the loom so you can take it indoors to use a multi-meter to check its operation. Without power on the trigger circuit you are looking to see an open circuit between the thick red input terminal to the output terminal (the thick wire (Black?) which goes to the starter). The check that circuit closes when 12 volts is supplied across the trigger terminals - if that fails then you need a new relay.

PS I hate Datatool alarms - had one on my Suzuki which killed a battery every year, went off without cause, refused to disarm anywhere near a mobile-phone mast, and generally was the prime reason I got rid of a bike which I really liked a lot. I hope that the immobiliser element of the alarm is not starting to fail - as they can cause all manner of problems and will often need a specialist to check/repair. One option is to pay an installer to remove the piece of **** and use a Thatcham approved Almax chain and lock for security instead. A bike chained to a lamp-post is a lot harder to throw into a transit van than one which simply has a blaring alarm!



SkiMad

 

Learned a hard lesson ?? I'd NEVER ride off on a just-bought HONDA bike without first testing that it has at least 13.5 volts across the battery terminals while engine is running. A lesson learned over 26 years by me.