Engine unused for 10 years, what to do?

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Renevator, Mar 13, 2021.

  1. Renevator

    Renevator New Member

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    I'm putting a 1994 VFR750FR back together. It's been sat in a garage for just under 10 years. Just how much work will that engine need do you think?
    The engine was drained of fluids, and has sat out of the frame, no carbs, all ports blocked up, for all this time. Should I be looking at a top end rebuild, would the bores and piston rings have incurred any corrosion, and what else might be an issue?
    Would a borescope show anything worthwhile or would the engine actually be ok?
    If so, what would be the best approach to recomissioning?
    It has 50,000 miles on it and ran perfect before being laid up.
    Obv I will be having carbs and everything else refurbed too.

    Would be interested in the expert advice from you guys here.

    Thanks
     
  2. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    first thing is pull the plugs & put spray some wd40 into the head. Leave it for a day. Remove the rocker covers & put oil everywhere that rotates until you have added the correct amount - this will drain into the sump. Then using the side cover try and turn the engine over WITH PLUGS OUT using a wrench. DO NOT force it.
     
  3. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    you want to see if the engine has seized before doing anything else and you want it lubricated first...
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  4. mexa

    mexa New Member

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    Mostly you can just start it. Best is as mentioned, rotate with wrench, oil in sump, and plugs out. Wait till new oil filter fills up, and oil starts showing at least out of pressure port.
     
  5. Renevator

    Renevator New Member

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    Thanks Pete, I'll try that first and fingers crossed it wont be seized. I guess if it is I'm in trouble :-(
    I presume spraying WD40, and waiting, means it will coat further than just adding a little oil? (because you're spraying) - is the idea to allow it to seap past the rings - or at least coat the dry bores before trying to turn?
     
  6. RllwJoe

    RllwJoe Insider

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    An actual penetrating oil would be a better choice to spray into the cylinder.
    Here in the states we have products like Liquid Wrench, or Blaster 16-PB Penetrating Catalyst. I think that a 3in1 oil may even work to loosen potential rusted parts.
     
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  7. mexa

    mexa New Member

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    If you have this much seized engine, then better disassemble it. usually you can just start it with a little oil in cylinders for first time. No need to overreact. But good to know if engine rotates and it's not seizing in one particular place(rust spot in cylinder)
    Bet type to oil engine in it's oil system is to pour oil with pressure via oil pressure port. Sometimes I do that for just reassembled engines for some reasons, only specific times.
    By doing that you oil all "bearing" parts
     
  8. Renevator

    Renevator New Member

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    I've not got the facility to pour oil with any pressure into the engine, but I'll try with penetrating oil into the bors, and also take the cam covers off and coat as much as I can with fresh engine oil, as suggested. Thanks for the suggestion on pressure port though.
     
  9. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    huh ? where's that located ????????? :confused:
     
  10. mexa

    mexa New Member

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    Low pressure switch, as I remember those engines had it
     
  11. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    If it’s not too late I also suggest a quick WD40 spray of the output shaft seal behind the front sprocket. It may have stuck to the shaft after sitting for so long. Also do the same for the clutch plunge shaft seal where the long rod from the slave cylinder passes through the crank case. This is just ahead of the front sprocket beneath the same housing - keep a close eye on where those housing bolts came out. They are all mostly different but similar lengths.

    Also spray the gear shifter seak too.

    Then wait 24hrs.

    This spraying won't guarantee that you'll save the seals, but its better than not trying to free them at all.

    I've just brought my 1995 VFR750 back to life after 10 years off the road. Don't bother asking how I know about leaking shaft seals. You already know. :-(

    This will apply to when its all connected up again later: Watch out for the water pump seals too. But you likely won't find out if they have survived until its had a few hot/cold cycles. Make sure to check the weeping hole beneath the pump for any sign of dripping. Again, I am quickly trying to figure out how to get a decent pump repair on this side of the pond - no luck so far. I might have to try and fix it myself at this rate.

    I'm on the post-MOT but barely ridden stage with the resto' putting a few miles on each week and watching for each new drip.
     
  12. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    You may be better off just getting another 2nd hand one...
     
  13. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    Financially yes.

    Although, with another bike I won't know what is already renewed and what might break soon. It'd just be a larger set of unknown issues rolling around in close formation.

    Besides, its been my bike for 25 years and kids got in the way of riding. Lockdown finally gave me time to revive it. Its nearly all done now. Almost all rubber components replaced. Just two cylinders to go (Clutch and rear brake masters) and a new set of tyres and it'll be finished. As long as I can stop the WP weeping and nothing else springs a leak.

    The biggest single revelation was how good the standard brakes were after I re-built all the callipers. Bite and feel that I don't remember having in the days before I laid it up.
     
  14. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    After I scratched the sensitive "why did you bother" itch I realised that you meant the pump. My bad.

    Yes, a second hand pump from fleabay, plus various seals and O rings should be here by the weekend. I just have to work out how to take it apart. But the cost so far is £14 for the pump plus £25 for the seals and rings. So if I get the dismantling wrong 1st time it shouldn't cost much too much to correct.
     
  15. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Don't touch the internals of the pump unless you need to - no point opening that can of worms...
     
  16. Renevator

    Renevator New Member

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    Yes same with me - I did contemplate buying another engine, but there's no guarantee with that either. When you say you've replaces all rubber components, does that mean you've rebuilt the engine? - or are we talking externals, like pumps etc. I'm guessing the clutch shaft seal is only replaceable from the inside - and that surely means a full stripdown!

    Will update when I get the borescope in a few days, then I'll try all these suggestions and see where I am after that. Thanks guys.
     
  17. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    No, no internal work was required. The seals I have changed are all at the outside of the crankcase. At least, all the ones that I have changed so far are located there.

    You asked about the clutch shaft seal. Well one of the clutch shaft seals is on the crankcase itself, the other is much smaller and embedded in the pushing end of the clutch slave cylinder piston.

    So far the hardest seal I have had to identify in the parts fiche has been the seal to the clutch push rod shaft where it enters the engine casing. Luckily I got a generic one of these using Amazon's same day delivery. This availability was lucky as the one I had ordered for that job actually fitted the clutch slave cylinder to push-rod hole and not the push-rod to crankcase hole. I was quite a long way through the work for that day when I spotted my mistake.

    The seal I meant to buy is item (12) here https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-vfr750f-1995-s-england_model5648/partslist/E__1100.html#.YFSNddynzTg

    Its an easy removal from the outside once the sprocket cover is removed.

    See the "Water Pump" fiche for the rest of the seals and gaskets in that area, and why I ordered the wrong one first time around. This fiche is also where to go to figure out which of those odd length 6mm flange head bolts go where when you come to assemble that collection.

    https://www.cmsnl.com/honda-vfr750f-1995-s-england_model5648/partslist/E__0801.html#.YFTp8NynzTg
     
  18. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    Why Pete? What is so bad in there? It’s just metal and rubber, right?

    I do not (yet) own a hydraulic press to extract the bearing, but I could fit a small one into my garage if it came to it. The bench versions seem to be a nice toy to have around. :)

    From what I have read so far it seems that unless the bearing faces are actually worn its only the seals that need to be changed. Plus polishing the shaft where the seals sit of course.

    I plan on practising seal replacement on the £10+p&p fleabay pump. If it looks good and feels smooth enough, I might fit it. If its’ bearings are shot, I'll get a second set of seals, pull my original pump and change those. I have a good feeling about the bearing on the existing pump as it is a very low mileage bike.

    Having said all that I may not even need to go that far as my recent test rides, and several puffs of talc in the area, seem to indicate that the weeping hole is staying dry. That points towards the casing gasket - or large O ring - being the real cause of the leak. I should know by the end of the weekend if the parts turn up.
     
  19. Simon Edwards

    Simon Edwards New Member

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    Hi Mexa, what tooling do you use to inject oil into the pressure sensor union?
     
  20. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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    If you're going to thread anything into that oil pressure sensor location, be aware that the thread might be british standard pipe thread and you don't want to cross thread the case.
     
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