Endless charging system issues

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Schruteinator, Jan 28, 2015.

  1. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    I have had my Fi-W since April 2014 and has been a nightmare ever since.
    When I purchased the bike, on the ride home it cut out which I found quite bizarre. Recovery agent arrived who was an avid biker as it goes and was fast to suggest it was the Reg/Rec.
    Had a bike electrician come to look at it which he confirmed was the error, it turned out it still has the original Reg/Rec.
    I was surprised as it had only done 16k miles in it's lifetime, but from what I have read, it can happen at any time.
    I soon after purchased a new Reg/Rec from a reputable motorcycle dealer, which worked fine until around October 2014, where the same issue was apparent again (which was the cutting out, clock resetting, solenoid clicking etc.).
    I called the electrician again who advised the "new" Reg/Rec had failed, but this time it was overcharging the system.
    I thought it was time to bite the bullet and purchase a MOSFET type R/R from Electrex World (very reputable brand in the UK) and I noticed the difference right away, the electrical system just generally ran much better.
    Now, this morning I went out to the bike ready to go to work (as I do 5 days of the week) and nothing. Battery had dropped to 11.6v but nothing had been left on to drain this. I took the panel off the side and discovered that the connection between the stator/alternator and the R/R was completely fried. I read online that these plugs are usually faulty so I went ahead and hardwired them all together, charged the battery and I was good to go again. However, upon arriving at work the bike died (lucky I got here in one piece!) and the battery was dead again. Unable to start it at all, clock resetting etc.
    When I hardwired the connections, I did a continuity test at 200ohms (I am no expert but this was using a guide) on the stator which gave 0.4 between connections and no reading to ground across all connections. This leads me to believe the stator is OK.
    I have checked the earth block, there are no apparent signs of corrosion so that all seems in order.
    Battery was brand new after I purchased the bike also.

    Any ideas as to where to go? I may have missed some details off so I will happily clear anything else up!

    Thanks :)
     
  2. NormK

    NormK New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Afraid you should have hard wired it when the first rec/reg failed, this time I would say you have now fried the stator, when the connectors melt the wires touch and it shorts out the stator. You will have to do the drill, nothing unusual with what has happened, happens all the time on here, every few days somebody is here with charging problems and most times it is the same cause
     
  3. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    Thanks for the quick reply :)
    So I've just went out to my bike on my lunch break to see the state of the RR to stator wires was like, I had to disengage my alarm and put it into service mode which required me to turn on the ignition. Upon doing this, the fuel pump would usually make a feeble sound but it sounded as strong as ever, so I hit the starter button and it fired up no problem at all. What would cause the intermittent problem like this? I rode to work in heavy rain but I do that most days to be fair - joys of living in Northern England!
     
  4. Markvfr800

    Markvfr800 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have same bike, same problems, no wiser yet, Im waiting on mosfit r/r to arrive, in the meantime im trying to figure out how to do a bulb text on the stator (im half thinking of just buying a new stator also) because apparnently even though your getting the correct readings from the multi-meter it still may not be putting out effectivly.......... I wonder if your battery is just burned out/not holding the charge? sorry im not much help!
     
  5. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Morris County, New Jersey
    Map
    In case you haven't seen it gents, take a look at this link, specifically post #9.

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/39277-How-to-fix-common-regulator-Stator-failures

    Mileage doesn't mean too much - my bike burned through 2 by 8,000 miles, and then I decided to listen to every one here and replace it the correct way.

    Electrical issues can always cause the intermittent problems: its starts one day, but not the next. The hi beams work one day, but not the next. Clock shorts out... you get the idea.

    The best approach is to tackle everything at once. I would HIGHLY recommend a MOSFET R/R.

    Good luck in getting it sorted. Ask questions if you need to - we're here to help.
     
  6. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    I appreciate the suggestion! :) thank you.

    However the battery is less than a year old and it's a high quality one... Couldn't quote you which one exactly but it's Yuasa and cost me ~£65!
    Although - would the second broken Reg/Rec have an effect on the battery? I'm taking it to have all the connections looked at tomorrow in the hope something stands out to them.
     
  7. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Morris County, New Jersey
    Map
    If you R/R or stator were not performing up to task, then yes, its quite possible your new battery could be toast. Best way to tell is to charge overnight and bring it to a local shop to have it load tested.

    Ultimately, any weak spot in the charging system is going to adverse effects on other parts of the system.
     
  8. Markvfr800

    Markvfr800 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Plisken I just looked at that post again and I carried out the multimeter text on the stator wires while the bike was running, it showed up 15/16v on idle and 55/58v at 5000rpm, that alongside the ohms test and contiuity text all checked out for the stator, seeing as i cant manage to light a bulb up with it can I assume the stator is not the problem---------- and im charging this battery overnight to get it load tested tomorrow------------ sorry for highjacking tread schruteinator but i figure were looking at same issues!
     
  9. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    Ah ok I get you. Is this similar with how long it would take to break down again?

    The first RR i installed lasted 6 months, which was a cheaper £40 but the latest one has lasted 2 months before problems arose which was a £130 MOSFET type.
     
  10. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    May as well try and get a combined solution! :p
     
  11. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Morris County, New Jersey
    Map
    I think both of you guys are heading in the right direction. Admittedly, most of what I know has only been absorbed from this site, but after years of involvement, you definitely learn that until you've fried at least one R/R, you're not a real VFR owner! So now you are officially part of the club. If your bike burns to the ground, then you get to be president.

    Schruteinator - there is no time line on when a R/R or related components may fail. There's probably some guys still running around here with the original, others that have hooked up tiny fans to try and keep the R/R cool, and still others that have gone through multiple R/Rs.

    As I alluded to earlier - and as Mellow Dude (in my opinion, our resident electrical guy) laid out in the step by step process - I believe its important to look at the entire charging system as one unit. It has to start with a battery that is known to be in optimal condition/fully charged If its not, any of your subsequent readings could be off. But again, if you put a new battery in a year ago, and you've been running on a questionable charging system, there are no guarantees that battery is now performing at 100%. (It may, but don't assume it is).

    Wires have to be checked thoroughly. Any snap-together-plug-ins need to be separated and examined. The exterior plug might look fine, but inside that plug could be a melted glob of plastic.

    Keep at it. You'll soon be on your way to trouble free riding.
     
  12. V4toTour

    V4toTour New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    38
    it's best if you think of the stator and R/R as consumables. just like oil filters and light bulbs.

    Install a new stator, direct wire it (no connector) to a decent MOSFET R/R and go ride. Playing with cooling fans is a complete waste of time IMO.
     
  13. Markvfr800

    Markvfr800 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2014
    Messages:
    62
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Iv just re-read that full sticky post again, the only thing im lost on is what is the point of joing the wires if its still a thin guage wire coming from the stator, surely that bit of thin guage wire needs to be replaced too? I have the battery in the house now, reading 13.6 volts, ill check it in the morning and see if its holding that charge, if not I might get a new one, if fact im thinking of just replacing the stator too if I can come across an upgraded one with thcker wires........

    The last thing I need is the bike off the road its my only transport!
     
  14. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    Just had a recovery guy out to look at it, did a few tests under load (after jumping it).
    The bike whilst idling alone was sitting at 12.67v, whilst revving it went up to about 12.75v - now when I put the lights on it dropped to about 11.6v and whilst revving, it seems to drop a little further (to about 11.5v).

    Is this a classic sign of anything in particular? Upon sorting this I am going to certainly have the entire system looked at.
     
  15. V4toTour

    V4toTour New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,339
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    38
    The thinner gauge wire itself is not the issue, it's where it meets with the R/R at the plug. That transition between the contacts builds up corrosion and resistance turning itself into a little heating element with the high voltage AC. The thinner stuff is usually just the first to go.

    If the stator's wire gauge was truly the issue I would expect to see burning insulation along the whole length of the wire run, which I never have. It is always right at the plug. Soldering a direct connection removes the issue of resistance build up in the connector.
     
  16. Schruteinator

    Schruteinator New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2014
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Wirral, United Kingdom
    I second this - my bike is my only way to get around! :(
     
  17. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Sorry its skiing time in the Alps and I have only just spotted this thread. I think it important that you go about methodical testing first before deciding to replace components which may be perfectly serviceable and are often quite expensive.

    I know Rubo's thread linked above is now many pages long - but the messages remain the same. All four elements of your charging system need to be in good order (Battery,loom,stator,RR), and a fault in one can cause damage to one or all of the others.

    It is important to understand that some components like the stator will test perfectly fine whilst they are cold, but once the windings get hot the insulation starts to fail and instead of generating power it starts to drain power from your battery - at which point gauges start to flip out and shortly after the bike grinds to a halt.

    Certainly if you have had the gooey connector issue then the chances are high that the insulation in your stator windings will have got really hot as it tried to supply power to the bike and immense heat at the connector short circuit. That is why post #9 and several others stress the importance of doing all those tests twice, once with the bike cold and then repeated straight after taking the bike out for a decent ride (30+ minutes should do) which will get the bike's electrical system thoroughly warmed up. If you can post up all the results of both cold and hot tests we should be better placed to advise on what(which) components may be playing up.

    As for Electrex I have no idea about the quality of their RRs. Hopefully the RR you purchased will be fine but if you end up concluding it needs replacing then I suggest you check out http://www.roadstercycle.com/ for any replacement. The guys there really know there stuff, and their stuff seems to be the sort of kit which Honda should have installed in the first place.

    As for the battery it sounds like it has been deep discharged at least once so do not assume it is still serviceable. All those tests depend on starting out with a healthy and fully charged battery. So ideally hook the battery up overnight to a digital motorbike battery optimiser/charger. The better ones actively monitor the charging process to recover and recharge the battery as far as is possible and then provide an assessment of the battery health. If the result is "strong" or "good" then reinstate it, if its comes back as "weak" or "defective" then get a replacement before doing anything else.

    If you don't have a battery tester, then refer to post #5 on the thread linked below for a crude battery health test.

    http://vfrworld.com/forums/showthread.php/46451-2002-Honda-vfr-800-charging-issue

    Good luck and let us know how you get on.



    SkiMad
     
  18. NormK

    NormK New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2012
    Messages:
    1,821
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just remember because a battery shows 12.6 volts it can fall over as soon as you put load on it
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  19. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

    Country:
    France
    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    2,269
    Likes Received:
    369
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    French Alps & London
    Map
    Correct - and exactly why the crude test I mentioned above relies on seeing how long the battery can continue to provide acceptable volts when a load is imposed on it...



    SkiMad
     
  20. Pliskin

    Pliskin New Member

    Country:
    United States
    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2008
    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Location:
    Morris County, New Jersey
    Map
    Typically those would be the classic signs of a failed/failing R/R. You mentioned you had a battery from about a year ago. Could it be a bad battery? Possibly, but based on everything else you've experienced, my money is on the R/R. That's why, as you've now read, its important to have a known, working & healthy battery. Keep in mind a 12V battery (I'm talking standard lead core, not AGM or other) actually has 6 cells that are designed to carry 2.1 to 2.2V. So multiplying by 6, a truly healthy battery will carry a minimum of 12.6V, and optimally, 13.2v. Anything less than that is suspect.
     
Related Topics

Share This Page