Dumd and dead on an R1,should've interferred

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by havcar, May 9, 2009.

  1. havcar

    havcar New Member

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    I own a wine and cigar business in the foothills just outside of Denver. In the center I occupy there are roughly 20 other stores doing various things. One of the tenants is a small local bar that is kind of known as a doctors on Harleys sort of spot, with the occasional sportbiker stopping in.

    I still rather unfortunatly feed a pack a day cigarette habit so I will step outside of my business every 45 minutes or so to light up. On Thurs 5/7 I was standing out there doing my thing at around 11am when I noticed an R1 pull in rather hot and revving, to take one of the bars open parking spaces. He was of course not wearing any gear, in fact it was the usuall squid attire that included shorts,T-shirt, and tennis shoes. Not even gloves were present, let alone a helmet. I was thinking to myself, "now there is a fool worth mentioning", amongst many other things that I'm sure you have all thought yourselves from time to time.

    As the afternoon goes on I'm periodically smoking and without fail, everytime I'm outside I see this guy jump on to his ride, hall ass through second gear up to a stop sign in the neihborhood that surrounds the center. He would then turn around , do the same thing and whip back into the bar. He even let what apeared to be a friend or two do the same. Again no safety gear for any of them.

    Now it's coming up on 4pm and nothing has changed for this kid except maybe his blood alcohol. At this point I am seriously thinking that I need to get my gear on, ride my bike the short distance to the bar and see if I can't strike up a conversation with him. You know, get a feel for his intoxication level, talk to him about safety gear and perhaps a cab ride home. Then I start thinking that this is the bars responseability and that I should mind my own business. Besides I guess I wasn't in the mood for one of those "who the fuck do you think you are" style conversations and getting into a confrontation with the guy and his two buddies, all of whom I had to assume were drunk.

    Not long after that I see him leave on his bike not to return.

    I open up my store on Fri. morning the 8th and I'm doing my usuall inventory when a regular walks in, Chris. I usually see him two or three times a week in the evening when he comes in for a six pack of Out of Bounds Stout and a Padron 1964. His visits are so regular that I know what he's going to purchase. He's kind of the stoic blue collar type that doesn't talk too much but a great guy no less. I say "hello, you're here early" and he slowly shakes his head as though I had interrupted him. He proceeds to grab a very exclusive bottle of Murray McDavid single malt valued at $370, completely out of the norm for this guy. Chris brings his scotch to the counter where he begins to sob, after a needed couple of minutes he tells me to keep wearing my gear which he can see is stacked in a chair behind the counter with my helmet on top. I am so shocked by his behavior that I say nothing.

    A few more seconds go by, he wipes his face and proceeds to slowly tell me about his brother who was 32 years old and just picked up an R1 on Tuesday 5/5. Chris explains that he met his brother(who was a complete stranger to me) at the bar in the parking lot for what was supposed to be lunch and a beer... A beer. Chris left at 12:30pm and thought his brother was leaving shortly thereafter. He didn't, as the bar explained to Chris and I can attest. Instead he chose to stay at the bar, drink the afternoon away, and with no safety gear on and fairly drunk, he takes a ride up a very technical canyon about 5 minutes from here. The kind of canyon that puts a rider into a lean for for a solid 8 miles. Some turns require a full blown knee down lean at speeds as low as 35mph.

    Chris then very painfully tells me about the phone call he had received the evening of Thurs. 5/7 in which the police found his brothers lifeless body, shattered after an appearant impact with a cliff face and a 70ft fall down a steep ravine and into a river. This was his first bike and the odometer read 189miles after they pulled it from the river.

    I did not mention to Chris anything about my knowlege of his brothers behavior
    that day and I probabily never will. I'm not feeling particularly good about that, but I don't believe it is going to help anyone.

    One thing that I now know is that I will never again, in an attempt to mind my own business, avoid a confrontation when it comes to speaking up at a moment when something can be done, before it is too late. You never know who you might be helping. Some behavior on motorcycles is simply unacceptable and will no longer be tolerated on my part. Who knows what may or may not of happened had I just put on my gear and made the effort, regardless of consequence, to talk to that young kid.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  2. Big3

    Big3 New Member

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    hate to hear that

    don't beat yourself up .. you had NO idea who he was



    just do what you feel you must do from here out
     
  3. squirrelman

    squirrelman Member

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    Riding any bike--especially a high-powered sportbike--is an excercise in self-control and good judgement EVERY single second.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2009
  4. Hootch

    Hootch New Member

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    Please don't beat yourself up Havcar. I understand your feeling of guilt, but everything in your post was dead on...very good chance you just would have ended up in a scuffle had you tried to pass on any wisdom to the man. You can lead a horse to water...

    There is no excuse for him to not be informed about safety. I am not trying to sound cruel...I truly wish the young man had not made the choices he made and none of this would have happened. GUess what I'm trying to say is feel bad for the man and his family, but don't feel responsible.

    Take care...

    Kevin
     
  5. Action

    Action New Member

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    Dude, I feel you pain. We've all had chances to do something different and wished we could of change things at a later time. I don't see that you did anything wrong. Would you have felt any better had you said something to him, had him ignore you, and ended up with the same result? He could have road away angry after words with you and you'd feel even worse. Hindsight is always 20/20.

    Action
     
  6. Sebspeed

    Sebspeed New Member

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    He was 32. Bottom line, he should have known better. Period. I would hate to hear that the guy left a family behind, but they would be the only people I'd feel sorry for.
     
  7. SCraig

    SCraig New Member

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    You can't personally accept responsibility for another rider's choices. Each and every one of us make choices each and every time we get on a bike. Some of us choose to wear safety gear, some of us don't. Some of us choose to ride well within our personal limits, others don't. What this rider did, what any of us do, is outside the ability of one person to control.

    As a guess he was going far to fast for the road, he was unde rthe influence of alcohol, and he was inexperienced. Even if you had convinced him to wear safety gear he didn't have it with him that day so it wouldn't have helped. Even if you had convinced him of the necessity to ride within his limits the alcohol bravery wouldn't have slowed him down that day. That day was all he had left and your talking with him at that time wouldn't have helped the eventual outcome.

    Don't beat yourself up. There was nothing at all you could have done for him.
     
  8. xeipher

    xeipher New Member

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    This is truly sad. But the facts are against you Havcar,
    First bike
    R1
    189 miles
    Under influence
    No gear whatsoever

    No doubt a lesson in limitations was coming towards this guy. Just wish it was not something this tragic.

    If you did speak to him and got into a heated argument, he would have ridden away angry. Maybe met with the same fate, probably you might have then blamed yourself for putting him in a bad mood and pushing him over the edge.

    Take care man and don't be too hard on yourself.
     
  9. powerslave

    powerslave New Member

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    Havcar,
    The dude drinks and rides......a freakin R1....Nothing you could have said or done would prevent the inevitable doom of this ignorant fool.

    I can understand your feelings but please don't feel .001% responsible for this guy's stupid decisions.

    Ride safe.
     
  10. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    One conversation with a drunk 32 year old isn't going to change his outlook. He is going to do what he is going to do, he wasn't a kid, he was a full grown man, albeit one with very poor judgment. You were right to consider intervening, and right not to get yourself in a situation that in all likelihood would have ended badly. Don't beat yourself up over it. All IMO, of course.
     
  11. Mark Somerville

    Mark Somerville New Member

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    I have to agree that there's nothing you could have done/you did do everything you could. Too often all that we can do is feel compassion, is the sad fact.

    I'll also point out that if a guy buys a bike and no protective gear then gets boozed up for a hard ride on day one, that guy has problems that go way beyond ignorance: When he rode into that canyon some really nasty issues were almost certainly riding him.

    Again: Nothing you could do but provide comfort to those still around.
    Damn, I am sorry though.
     
  12. Lgn001

    Lgn001 Member

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    I believe we are all in agreement on this one. You have nothing to feel guilty about. I think we have all known our share of people who exercise very poor judgment when they drink. Some get over it and their lives get better. Some don't, and their lives get worse (or end).

    It is tragic to die over a bad decision, or in this case, several. But at least nobody else was involved in the collision.
     
  13. jay956

    jay956 New Member

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    i feel sorry that his family had to experience natural selection first had. but i do not feel for the guy. and there was nothing you could do. dont worry about it
     
  14. Rollin_Again

    Rollin_Again Member

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    I hate to be an a$$hole but this kid had it coming to him. I feel no sypathy for people who get injured or killed while drinking and driving especially while on a bike. Thank god this fool didn't force an innocent family off the road and cause death or injury to people who were just minding their own business. I also don't feel sorry for the squids who wreck on their bikes shortly after blowing by me on the interstate doing 130+ mph. I feel bad for this kids family but I am also somewhat relieved that there is one less idiot on the roads who may have eventually taken me away from my family and kids through his own recklessness. At 30+ years of age he really should have known better!!! One more thing, if Chris is stopping by your shop 3 or more days a week to buy booze and using scotch as a way of dealing with his brothers death then he may have some issues of his own

    Regards,
    Rollin
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  15. two4one

    two4one New Member

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    I've witness similar behavior, minus the alcohol, at my sisters the last two weekends. Young adults living in low-rent apartments which they can barely afford decided to buy sportbikes. I've watched them come and go countless times with shorts, sneakers and no gloves BUT they do have a helmet on. They leave for 20 minutes and come back right away only to leave again 20 minutes later. Weird. I am surprised they have helmets given the added expense. Usually that's a reason for younger owners, they have no cash in the first place.

    Certainly not your fault what happened to this lad. It's not our place to protect anyone else from the world. We each make our own choices in the moment. Some of us have done stupid things but we managed to stay out of harms way. When I had my cruiser, I would frequently travel without a lid on. It's easy to look back on it now and say it was dumb but at the time it was the greatest freedom I had ever felt. That moment is gone given everything else I have experienced on a bike since then.

    That being said, if I ended up in a conversation with a noob, I would definitely express my thoughts on the gear thing without preaching. It's one of those things that you don't know, until you know (hopefully you make it through the crash to learn).
     
  16. H.C.D.

    H.C.D. New Member

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    I will add one more item to the list above...

    No common sense whatsoever

    Of course, many people think that riding motorcycles, with or without gear, demonstrates poor judgement. And frankly, they have a point.
     
  17. leftcoast

    leftcoast New Member

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    a very thoughtful and well written post.
    thanks.

    you don't need a map or a compass to take a trip.
    this unfortunate rider may have died the way he lived. choosing to disregard planning and the safety considerations that are so profound around riding a motorcycle.

    also a reminder that not just the rider gets hurt....many around this incident are feeling pain from his actions, as well.

    ride safe, all........
     
  18. dcompson

    dcompson New Member

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    Everything i was thinking of posting, others have already stated. Try to move on. Dont dwell on the past "what if" situations. I honestly dont think you would have made a difference by trying to talk to him. Many bad decisions were made by HIM that ended his life.

    Be safe out there!
     
  19. vfourbear

    vfourbear New Member

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    Your feelings on the event are what they are, time will ease the pain of course, but writing about it helped no doubt.

    Without sounding all new agey, it wasnt in the plan for you to talk this guy off this ledge.

    We often think that If only I has done this or that it would have changed things, but we never really know if we could have had any effect on the outcome.

    I am sorry this happened to you.

    It just hurts more because youre a rider and you know personally how dangerous that mix of elements can be, and he died doing something you love.

    Thanks for sharing it with us, I hope we help you work it out in your heart by listening.

    Peace brother.
     
  20. AnUnknown1

    AnUnknown1 New Member

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    My thoughts are with the family he left behind. I used to take the approach you did on many an occation. But being a father now and wanting my kids to always do the right thing i tell people things all the time. You have a brake light out, headlight out, tire going flat, THAT BIKE IS A BIT BIG FOR AN UNEXPERIENCED RIDER. My wife being a new driver/rider has learned alot taking classes and going on rides with several friends of ours. We get all kinds of questions cause we are always willing to help others. We have tried MANY times to talk first time buyers out of bikes in the liter range, even trying to stay @ 500cc or less for the first bike. The response is fairly similar, "i dont want to grow out of it and want a bigger bike in a year". We have tired to explane learning take a long time to get used to even 1 bikes limits, let alone getting used to riding at all. no mattery how gently we put it, "wouldnt you like to live long enough to buy another bigger bike?" never gets across. They always end up doing what they want, never heeding to an experienced riders advice. Sometimes as the saying goes "you cant fix stupid". We can all do our best to welcome new riders and nudge them into common sense that isnt always so common. If you do your part, say your piece, you never know who will listen, and it never hurts to try. Its always hard when the lesson comes too late, dont blame yourself, there are too many what if's. He may have listened, but in all likelyhood, he wouldnt, and the guys at the bar, should have known better than to let him ride off, sportbiker or not, its they whos concience who should weigh heavy now.
     
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