5th gen weird clutch issues.

Hello all. I have a 2000 vfr with 68k miles. Everything was working great until I took a weekend day trip up to the mountains. From phoenix to flagstaff is 5000+ ft elevation change and I noticed up there that fluid was dripping out of my clutch master where the lever pushrod is. I booked it home and removed/cleaned/flushed the clutch system and master internals. Bled the line from the slave and bled the master from the banjo bolt. Nice clean fluid, buttoned it up, test ride went great. No more leakage or issues til the next day after about half hour of riding, clutch slips a little getting up to speed on freeway on ramp. I figure it's just old maybe plates are worn. I head home and on side streets, slippage gets worse and worse and worse til the clutch will not engage a gear at all. Just sits there idling in 1st gear. No pull. I get out the tool kit, open the banjo bolt and fluid comes out a little. Wipe everything off and now it works again. No slippage. (Maybe overfilled when refilling it.) Next day, I go for a ride, notice slippage again pretty bad when warmed up. I take it home, syringe some more fluid out (still normal level in master) and now I'm dead in the water. Not engaging at all. Currently fluid is just below master 'lower' mark on sight glass. Inside master is spotless clean and all fluids are new dot4. Wtf is going on? Is it more likely my clutch is just roached or something else is suspect? I have had 12 Hondas and only one clutch go bad. I know nothing about the history of the bike as I only got it 2000 miles ago.

 

Ok 2 different problems here fluid problems will not cause the clutch to slip,it will cause the reverse, clutch won't lift the plates. Put it in gear and see if you can push it, if you can, then remove the slave cylinder and then see if you can push it and come back and tell us what you have found

 

Sounds like the clutch plates are gone.


OR...sometimes the pushrod that runs from the slave to the clutch get dirty and sticks. Pull the slave then the pushrod & have a look at it.

 

Thanks for the quick replies. Update: if I have the bike on the centerstand in 1st the wheel spins and stops rolling if I pull in clutch.

If it is rolling on centerstand and I press rear brake, wheel stops but rpms baaaaaarely dip.

Clutch in/out action works, just weak. I didn't want to open up the slave and introduce another variable until I had confirmed that the master did or did not have a problem. I opened up/re cleaned and used fine wire to poke through the holes in the master as orig fluid was pretty nasty. Buttoned back up and bled thoroughly. Took it back out for 30 min ride thru all temp ranges, really whipped on it. No slips at all!

I have a Barnett Kevlar kit with new springs on order. I use them in my wings and cb750s and really like them. Might as well since this one has 70000 miles almost. I may remove the slave as a maintenance item after swapping the kit but I will wait to see if it slips again and update if it does. Thanks again for the quick replies.

 

You don't need to open up the slave, just unbolt it , but if you do unbolt it don't pull the clutch lever in because then you will be rebuilding the slave

 

The slave is a piece of cake to pull.....

 

I don't disagree that its easy. Its just the methodology of introducing multiple variables into a problem.
Mine originated with the master cylinder leaking and I want to be SURE the master is eliminated from the equation before jumping around to other parts.

Since the problem was fixed at the master i stand by my logic.

My first instinct was to pull the slave as well but I have spent too many late nights in the garage back in the day jumping all over diagnosing problems and learned to take them one step at a time.

I have 3 to 5 business days to wait for my new clutch kit. Til then I will ride it hard and try to get it to fail again. Thanks again for the quick replies. I love this site!

 

My point being that the MC will NOT cause the clutch to slip....only to NOT disengage. Slipping can be caused by bad clutch plates or a physical issue with the rod that disengages the clutch.

 

The master can cause the clutch to slip if it is overfilled, or If it is over pressurized or clogged in some way, which is what I believe my problem was., if it is not returning, only sending fluid out. I noticed my lever point at which the clutch 'grab' was progressively further out while the slippage was worse. Indicating a build up of pressure. Since the cleaning of the 'return' hole in the master, the clutch works again.

This is why even though it is common to suspect the token culprit in these situations, sometimes it pays to solve one problem at a time before introducing more variables. In this case it started and ended at the master.

 

I just rebuilt my master and slave after I noticed the master leaking a little. It was a one time leak but why mess with it, the rebuild kits are like $30 and $15. I also have the Barnett kit with just 5k on it, if you're going to all the trouble of opening the system, just throw some new seals and pistons in there. I respect your one thing at a time approach, but for the few extra $ and the milage on the bike why not...I had 100K on my slave cylinder at rebuild and got 95k out of the original clutch, probably could have gone more. But I do think Rabbit is on the right track. Let us know what you find.

 

I have the rebuild kits on my workbench. I plan to do a complete overhaul of the system after I put the new clutch plates and springs on.

How many miles are on your vfr? That's encouraging I plan to keep mine a while and hope to get many miles out of it

 

I have never heard of a blocked return hole on a clutch causing this problem because the clutch springs have plenty of power to force the fluid back through the hole, unlike the brake master cylinder return hole which relies on the "O" rings to push the fluid back

 

It is a first for me too. That is why I called my post "weird clutch issues." It is a weird one. I have dealt with many different kinds and never encountered this particular set of symptoms.

Still could be a combination of plates, slave pushrod, etc. All I know is its working just fine now so I will not f-- with it till I have my clutch kit on my doorstep and can do a complete clutch system from top to bottom. I have new OEM clutch master and slave kits and new springs and plates on the way.

I plan on riding cross country in may of this year so this is just about the last element of the bike that has to be gone through. Next is a valve job.

God what I wouldn't give for old school tappet valves. Whoever came up with the idea of shim under bucket valves should be dragged through the streets behind a parade of million mile goldwings with tappet valves that take 20 minutes and zero dollars to adjust.

Just my opinion. But even with that said I love this bike and will happily ride it forever.

 

I'll be watching this thread with interest. I have a little of 50k miles on my '99, and I am thinking about replacing the clutch plates. While the clutch works OK, the final engagement seems to grab more that it used to.

At least with the 5th gen VFR, pulling the camshafts out is really easy; no camchain to release and no sprockets to re-align. Others here have suggested the valves rarely need adjusting, I did mine as I had no idea of the service history, and found all exhausts spot-on but four intakes were just a little tight. If you have all the parts at hand (i.e. shims and gasket sealant) then I'd guess it is a 2-3 hour job. I bought a HotCams shim kit and this was great but Honda's legendary build precision mean I needed 4 1.75mm shims for the intakes but the kit only had 3 (and my local dealer had none) so I buttoned the bike back up with one marginally tight intake. I later read that you can carefully resize a larger shim using fine sandpaper and glass.

And I can't say the bike ran any better or worse after the adjustment, but I felt better about it.

 

I have ground my own shims in a pedestal drill, a speaker magnet fitted into the chuck to hold the shim and a sheet of wet and dry paper on the table. Bit slow but at least it gets the job done

 

It just ticked over 99K miles. The MC was a RC SP2 as that's the front end I have on and wanted to match the brake MC. Just switched to a 600rr MC though with the integrated reservoir. I put in the clutch plates at 93K when I swapped in a used motor due to a shot 2nd gear from the oem motor. Seemed like a good time to put in new clutch plates.

 

My moneys on the clutch push rod, but did you fit new M/C piston seal when you over hauled that ?

 

Yes replaced both piston cups and boot from a spare kit.

I plan to do my valves as well because I don't know the history of the bike and by the looks of other items that weren't well maintained, I'm sure they have never been done.

 

Exactly. I like my bikes kept up 100% and I'd rather know I did it than hope they're fine.

 

Yes replaced both piston cups and boot from a spare kit.

I plan to do my valves as well because I don't know the history of the bike and by the looks of other items that weren't well maintained, I'm sure they have never been done.