5th gen brake conversion to separate brakes

Hi guys and gals.

I hate the linked brakes on the 5th gen. Because I can't feather the rear without the front coming on (and sending me wide in corners that tighten unexpectedly), I have absolutely no confidence in them on roads that I don't know. Has anyone done a conversion to change the brakes to separate, or at least, combined with the leaver, but only rear on the pedal?

The thing that I'm most worried about with a conversion is adding more front lever travel for the same amount of stopping power (I don't want the lever to reach the grip - it's closer than I'd prefer as it is because I have short fingers, and the lever's on the closest setting).

Does anyone know of a conversion kit (or parts from various bikes) to separate the brakes?

Cheers,
Danny

 

Sending the machine wide in corners is the suspension setup or you are overriding your capabilities. as for the not knowing the road part, slow down. it's not the brakes.


.....

 

Thanks for the advice, but the linked brakes are horrible for anything more than doddling around (even then, small roundabouts are always horrible unless I ride the clutch). So if someone can advise on how to do the modification (and how to avert possible technical problems), I'd love to hear about how it's done.

 

There have been multiple members here that have de-linked their brakes both on 5th gen's and 6th gen's, search De-linking and see what you come up with. I do, however, have to agree with NCB. I have gotten myself in too deep on unfamiliar roads before and had to do some "emergency" (read:stupid) braking before. The brakes are not the problem, in fact, I think they are a crutch. I used to drag my rear in corners on my old bike when I went in a bit to hot and it worked great, no crashes from that, but that's the WRONG thing to do. Now that I have my 6th gen and have broken myself of that habit, I ride better and enter corners at a smarter speed, well, most of the time :whistle:....................

 

yeah some guy did it a while ago: http://vfrworld.com/forums/mechanic...ad-s-delinking-brake-saga-interceptor-ss.html

 

see if you can find an f4i parts bike. the f4i forks will slide right in. you can do a brake delink and a fork/brake upgrade at the same time. i think at the least youre gonna need the f4i master cylinder, forks, and calipers. you probably want to go with s/s f4i lines or custom lines while youre at it. also custom rate springs and cartrige emulators would be a good idea at this point. im not sure if youre gonna need an f4i front wheel, discs, or custom spacers though....

 

Danny,

How long have you been riding?

This sounds more like a beginner type problem and not a brake hardware problem.

My advice is to save your money and invest your time into improving your riding habits.

NorcalBoy has it right . . . "It's not the brakes."

 

Thanks for the link to Mello's brake delinking project.

I've only had the VFR for a couple of months, so perhaps I'll get used to the strange braking behaviour compared to the separate brakes I've been used to. So far, they inspire no confidence unless I have virtualy no lean angle at all.

Anyway, yes, I'm going to do some training at Honda Australia Rider Training (HART), so presumably I'll be talking to the right people to learn the differences in technique needed to ride with combined brakes. However, if they can't help, it's out with the combined braking system, and in with an unlinked system.

Thanks again for the advice and links.

 

Danny,

You never did tell us how long you have been riding.

How long?

It's not a trick question.

 

Concur.....running wide is not brakes.

Brakes feeling horrible and not confidence inspiring can be either worn pads, crap in the brake fluid , or worn out OEM brake lines.

Replace all the above, go stainless lines, take some rider training, then report back if you still insist you absolutely must must must delink those brakes.

I think you will find you may change your mind.

Please do a search here for 5th gen brake upgrades before you drive yourself nuts going about undoing what it took some very smart folks a while to get right.

 

Hi guys. Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I've been meaning to get back onto VFRWorld for weeks, but between work and chores that the wife wants me to do, it's nearly impossible! Thanks for the info.

I've had my licence for a bit over a year, so I'm certainly not going to say that my skills aren't a part of the equation. The bike's at a well renowned suspension guy in Melbourne at the moment, so soon that won't be an issue (with nearly 90,000km on it, I guess a few things could be worn a bit, and possibly causing ducking and weaving to happen while leaning over under brakes). Another training course is high on the priority list when the bike comes back, as is bleeding the brakes, just to make sure there isn't something a bit more fundamental that needs to be addressed. The lever feels a bit softer than I'd prefer, but the pedal feels good (unless I'm not 100% vertical, when the front bucks and dives, making the bike feel really unsettled - maybe the suspension work will help with this).

From what I can see, Mello's conversion was a bigger undertaking than I'm willing to commit to at the moment, so unless I can find a bigger bored front master cylinder (to operate all six front cylinders without pulling the lever into the bar), delinking the front from the back is probably unlikely to happen. I guess I'll have to be sensible, and not go in too hot... ;-)

 

PS: please read the last sentence in my post above with a sense of humor... I know that going into a corner too hot deliberately would be slightly insane... :-?

 

You do realize that Reg Pridmore in his Class motorcycle classes uses a VFR on the track and wipes the track with ohhh, about 99% of the people there even on Ducatis and CBR600RR and the like. If he isn't hampered by it, then I certainly am not and I would guess that not many if any on this list are.

If it is sending you noticebly wide in corners, than you are riding too fast for the road conditions/your skill. The application of the rear brake doesn't fully apply the front brake, only a small portion. I can't remember if it is 1/6 or 1/3 of the front brake.

 

you can trail brake w/ the rear w/o it applying the front, even w/ the LBS. Try to set up your suspention better and try it again..
sounds more like suspention set up.

 

So Reg still uses VFRs for CLASS? I'm impressed! When I saw photo's of him on a Viffer everywhere in his book, I thought "if a VFR's good enough for him, it's good enough for me!" He says never to use the rear brake mid-corner. In his book, he says to use only the front brake if you're leant-over - the exact opposite to what the instructors said when I got my licence (though they strongly advised against using brakes if you're not at 90 deg to the ground).

The main thing I've learnt is that there are a lot of "experts" out there saying a lot of things about motorcycling, and often they disagree with each other. For instance, Reg says to flash your headlights at cars that are about to pull out, so they can see that you're there... It's no wonder why he also says he's had plenty of people look him in the eyes, smile, and then pull out in front of him... Without realising it, he's telling many of them "I'm letting you out in front of me" (in Australia, he'd be telling 99% of drivers to "go ahead and pull out"). Needless to say, despite the high regard I hold him in, I don't believe everything I read in his book.

Anyway, I've digressed... Yes, as I've previously said, I'm going to get more training when my bike's back from getting the suspension maintenance/modifications done. Yes, I'm also going to give the brakes some maintenance, because (at the very least) I suspect that the front brakes aren't applying the rear as they were intended to do. Yes, I'm going to try to judge my speed better into corners, but yes, I'll probably still mis-judge some corners from time to time.

So, let's assume that I take some courses, practice more, and fix the handling issues. Yes, generally, the bike will probably be fine. Now, what about loose gravel roads? Particularly, steep ones with slow speed corners... There's a long steep winding gravel road that I'll need to take when I go for an interstate trip to visit my best friend (it's the only way to get to/from his place). Getting up the hill to his place should be OK, but what about going back down? There are corners that shouldn't be taken above 15MPH, but in 1st gear, gravity would push me along at 30MPH at the very least. The last thing I'd want to do is to touch the brake pedal, and have the front slide out from under me. Having grown up on farms, riding bicycles on gravel roads, I've learnt from experience that it's a bad idea to use the front brake on a gravel road with a loose surface (something that has been confirmed by a number of my motorcycling friends). The linked brakes may be better than I give them credit for, but there are situations where they simply aren't as good as having delinked brakes. One thing's certain... Before I visit my friend, I'll buy myself some brake hose clamps to temporarily delink the brakes, ready for his hill...

 

Yeah, I agree with NOT flashing your headlamps to inform someone that you're there, I also do that to indicate to someone that they can go first.

I wouldn't go clamping off brake hoses for any reason, their structure makes them bendable and flexible but they should not be stressed or pinched or clamped off. The reason for this is that you run the risk of stressing the internal structure of the hose itself and therby weakening that spot that you clamped off.

I have been on seriously steep rough gravely/loose dirt/chopped up pavement/holes big enough to eat my front wheel roads. The worst part of riding on those roads (especially down hill) is that you have a much smaller margin for error when chosing how much speed to carry. You obviously know this bad spot is there, so you've removed the "suprise" factor. Keep her in first gear and ride/drag the brakes (both of em) just a little while going down the hill to MAINTAIN your speed, instead of trying to slow down all at once when you reach the 15mph corner. That's how I do it anyway, hope that helps you and I didn't come off like a know it all, damn I type a lot :doh:

 

Hi Metallican,

Thanks for the advice. It sounds like I'll have to find some loose gravel a bit closer to home, so I can get some practice, so I don't wreck my pride and joy...

Cheers,
Danny

 

+1 for NCB. The brakes are not the problem. They are awesome stoppers!!
Your worn suspension will give you a diving feeling.
Hope the freshen up on it pays dividends.
Downhill gravel = 1st-2nd gear and brake pedal.

 

Strictly from the standpoint of aggressive riding and proper handling the rear brake does nothing but cause problems. Any good riding coach will begin their instruction by telling the rider to forget that the rear brake is even installed on the motorcycle - don't ever use it. Because of that I can see why danny_tb would want to de-link his bike. I must say that it would be one of the first things I would do to a 5th gen for sure.

 

I respectfully disagree Jamie. You might want to read this my friend. Pay close attention to paragraph three and the overall stopping distances.>>>Motorcycle Riding Skills Series Hard Braking Tips - Sport Rider

I do agree with you that a beginner should concentrate on learning how to use the front brake first. They have so many things to think about when first learning to ride their bike that dividing their attention between the front and rear brake when stopping can easily become a bit of information overload.
But once they've learned the front brake and feel confident in their abilities they then should move forward,refine their skills,and learn to use the rear brake as well.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the rear brake Jamie,it simply requires a much higher degree of skill and finesse to master the techniques of using it properly.
Five feet shorter stopping distance doesn't seem like much I know,but that five feet just might be the difference between you stopping safely or you sticking your nose out into the intersection and getting taken out by a bus.