:frown: I hope someone can shed some light on this problem, take some of the stress away my vfr750 fj when cruising/accelerating/decelerating, makes a sound like a loose tappet??, now i tested this by riding at 30-40mph, killing the engine, with the clutch in or out makes the same sound?? (coasting)so i know its not engine. And the sound is gear dependant ie if i leave it 3rd, no engine running and clutch in, it makes a fairly slow sort of loose tappet sound (but a little deeper sound, not so tinny), and with the clutch in and no engine, go down a gear and the sound speeds up? it does this in any gear, in neutral, the sound dies away and stops, only happens when in gear/ engine/no engine/clutch/no clutch. Now i can only sumise that it is a gearbox prob, the input shaft as it alters with gear selection, and stops in neutral. is there any components connected to the input shaft, oil pump/water pump that could make this sound?, is definatly does not sound like a knackered bearing, its a regular dull tapping sound. You can hear it as well by leaning the bike on its stand, drop in gear (not running) clutch out and rotating the back wheel so it turns the gearbox. any help much appreciated as im hoping its not a gearbox fault (the bike has only covered 40,000 miles with 4 prev elderly owners) and something else, any ideas anyone? thanks in advance Regards Steve
huh? try explaining it again but slow.........maybe it those dog legs if it runs okay not surging could be the rod that moves back in forth when you pull the clutch little bearing in there not sure im confused hows your oil level???what day is it??where am i?
Have you checked the countershaft sprocket? If the splines are a bit sloppy and dry, they can make some noises similar to those you describe, other than the "no motor/drop down a gear and the noise speeds up" that you mentioned. I would check it just because it is easy to get to. And I believe that the input shaft spins in neutral, as the only shaft that changes RPM relative to gear selection is the countershaft. If, however, the vehicle is moving at a constant speed per your description, engine off with the clutch disengaged, the countershaft will spin at a constant RPM and the input shaft RPM would vary depending on the gear selected, which is probably what you are suggesting. And I am not understanding something; if the bike, on it's stand, is in gear, without the engine running and the clutch is out, how can you rotate the back wheel?
Elf800, try reading slower???? LGN001 Sorry, yes with the clutch IN on side stand in gear (typo sorry) i will check the splines thank you (worth a look) "If, however, the vehicle is moving at a constant speed per your description, engine off with the clutch disengaged, the countershaft will spin at a constant RPM and the input shaft RPM would vary depending on the gear selected, which is probably what you are suggesting." - that is what i mean mate, the noise increases as i come down the box, into neutral and i hear it wind down and stop (bike still coasting) then into first and it winds up then slows as road speed slows (all with clutch in) - it must be something on the input shaft side, but what (scratches head)?? it is getting worse the more i use it, and im starting to worry that something is going to let go bigtime....need to sort it
also i change the oil every 1000 miles and filter (gen honda) every 2000 miles, and level is fine? i do have a slight weep coming from gear selector or output shaft seal (not sure which, its very slight)
Because you can hear it "winding down" after it goes into neutral, that says that something is slowing down and stopping. With the tranny in neutral, the input shaft is only connected to the clutch inner hub and in turn to the driven clutch plates, and I can't imagine them making a ticking type of noise as they slow to a stop. I can imagine one of the input shaft bearings ticking, particularly if they are ball bearings and one of them has a flat spot on one of the races. And I do need to be clear on one important point: I have never seen the inside of a VFR transmission. My conclusions are based solely on my experiences with various other bike transmissions & drivetrains, although many have been Hondas. If you remove the chain and are able to turn the countershaft sprocket by hand (in gear, clutch disengaged), you might be able to actually feel the "glitch" if it is an input shaft bearing, or an internal bearing period. As I re-read your original post, "now i tested this by riding at 30-40mph, killing the engine, with the clutch in or out makes the same sound", that must mean that you are in neutral, correct? Because if you are in neutral, the input shaft would not be turning, and it would eliminate the input shaft bearings as a cause of the noise. It would also eliminate anything on the clutch side of things, because if the motor isn't turning and the input shaft isn't turning, all of the various clutch related bits are stationary as well. I can see why it is mysterious... How tight is your chain and what kind of shape is it in? And please forgive me if I restate something that you have already suggested. I sometimes get wordy as I try to explain my reasoning...
Cheers for that mate! i will take the bike out again and clarify, but im quite sure in neutral never makes the noise (clutch in/out), only when in gear and moving, ie doesnt not do it when stationary, in 1st running clutch in. Thankyou for the in depth description, im the same, trying to communicate a lot of info, but i prefer that to vague descriptions worked on numorous gearboxes, but never had this kind of problem before! will take it out for a spin and clarify PS the chain has 1" to 1 1/4" play and is only done 3000 miles, top of the range ek chain and i clean it regularly
Right, i removed the sprocket cover (which unfortunately carries the clutch slave cylinder, so disengaging the clutch is impossible while turning the output shaft, and cannot reach the output shaft with cover on ) and put into neutral, and moves freely, no notchiness, no sound, no play, so no probs with the output shaft (as expected). Took her for a ride, and the clutch makes no difference to the sound, engaged/disengaged, so the problem is the input shaft bearing(s), would you concur? I would describe the sound it makes as holding a playing card against a rotating sprocket, (edge in the teeth)but much fainter, more metallic; at about walking pace the frequency of "taps" is approx 2 per second if this helps, it also does not make a sound when cold, only when warm(i assume this is due to the oil thinning and blocking the sound less?) i run it on castrol 10-40 Any more suggestions greatly appreciated, thanks in advance Regards Steve
First off thinking that came to my mind is, Chain. Now let me understand, you can set it up on it's side stand have it in gear and turn it over by hand? wow you are strong, not trying to be a smart ass here, but I'm surprised you can do that as the compression should stop you in your tracks. I know this how, try bump starting and engine, very hard to do if not done right. I could turn mine over by hand if one I had a cheater bar and went slow but there'd be no way to know whats what as it not able to turn over fast enough to reproduce said situation. Hmm
Out of curiousity, I got out the shop manual for a 6th gen and looked at the transmission components. They refer to the input shaft as the main shaft, FWIW. It does use ball bearings on each end. With regard to the clutch assembly, the "throwout bearing" and the "pressure plate" are referred to as "lift bearing" and "lift plate". There is a roller bearing on the outer clutch housing where it locates on the input shaft (typical). The lift bearing is a ball bearing. The reason I mentioned all of the above is that if it were me, I would disassemble the clutch before concluding that it was the input shaft bearings. My reasoning is that once the clutch is disassembled, you can turn the input shaft by hand, and I would think that you could feel the notchiness of a bad ball bearing on the input shaft, especially if you where to apply inward pressure in for a few revolutions and outward pressure out for a few revolutions. You could also inspect the "lift bearing" to see if it is the culprit. The lift bearing comes to mind for one reason; it's hydraulically actuated, and the push rod is possibly exerting a slight force against it. Kind of a long shot, as the noise is very consistent/rythmic, but I would do it before I split the cases. Definitely a mechanical brain teaser...
RVFR - read post 4 Lgn001 thankyou, that will now be my next step, as it seems the most logical way of finding the fault without splitting the cases (ive never heard of anyone having to do this on a vfr, for any reason) as soon as the weather improves will post results asap thanks again for the help, helps to have someone that is mechanically minded and not just think they are giving advice randomly without reading previous posts :tongue: A brain teaser is right mate! had 50+ previous bikes since i was 16 now 28(most 70`s-80`s hondas that were past there best when i bought them!!) and have heard most noises a bike is capable of making (and fixing them, i like a challenge) but this is a new one on me! should be interesting to find what it is just hope its not an expensive one hehe
Right then, ive removed the r/h casing, and i found that one of the 5 clutch spring and bolts has come loose, and scraping against the casing!, so i tried to nip it up, and the lug in which the bolt screws into on the centre clutch sheared off so, started to disassemble the clutch, removing the pressure plate and friction plates. After these were removed, i tried rotating the clutch centre to check the input shaft bearings, and there is no noise, no notchiness but i did notice that when the centre was rotated, (ie the input shaft)the clutch basket and its cog were wobbling slightly, wavering in and out a few millimetres (obviously stationary, not rotating as its still connected to the crank)!?? but when i look at the clutch centre when rotating, this is perfect (so i assume the shaft is not bent) but either the bush and/or the needle bearing on which the clutch basket sits is worn, or the clutch basket is distorted??? Due to weather, i could not remove the basket and bearing for inspection (although the special nut that holds the basket on was severely butchered by a previous owner and staked in 4 places!! (it should only be staked once) and took me 1 1/2 hours to remove as soon as the weather permits, i will continue and post my findings as i find them (please o lord let the shaft be ok, and just the bearing/bush be fooked "prays")
The wobble is probably the needle bearings in the clutch basket, particularly since the bolt hitting the case was banging it around. I guess we can assume that the bolt hitting the case was the "playing card in the spoke" noise... This is one I will remember! Good luck on the input shaft! I expect that most of the impact was taken up by the post that sheared off. Transmission shafts are pretty hard steel, and would be really tough to bend without cracking, I believe. Since somebody has been in there before you, it might worth checking to see if there are missing or misplaced components (washers or spacers). I had a bike with two extra washers under the basket retention nut for no apparent reason. How much metal was missing from the case cover?
All fixed! hurray Yes, it was the needle bearing and bush that were at fault! just picked on up from a breakers (a full clutch assy) from a fl model (they are identical except that the nut holding the basket is a normal nut, not like an 1988-89 one, which requires a special tool!, so order a later nut to save having to buy the tool). The comp clutch was £50 with the bearings (honda wanted £50 for the bush and bearing) and my friend needs new plates for his FL model, so we split it, he had the plates and i had everything else, not bad for £25 , now sweet as!!, no noise etc The casing wasnt that badly marked tbh, so i assume that the spring bolt had come loose through the vibration of the knackered bearing Thanks for all your help LGN001, nice to have someone on here that isnt a full time comedian! I hope this info is of some use to someone else, and save a little time and money! thanks again Regards Steve
Glad that you found it, and it was relatively easy to fix. I suspect that the bolt backed out due to being overlooked or under-tightened, primarily because somebody had been in there before. Somewhat academic now... And I'm only a comedian most of the time, although most of those around me might not agree. I think I'm funny... This truly is an exceptional website/user group, given the breadth of experience and the various personalities. And like I said before, this is one of those problems that I'll remember. Ride safe (or should I say quietly?).
