VF1000R - No Crank Slow Crank

hello chaps, my old /new again VF1000R finally made it back on the lift and I've got some issues - electrical isn't my strong suit so here goes;

its been sat for 5 years with no starts, today I put a battery in and a bit of fuel to see if she would fire up:

1) Sometimes No Crank - just solenoid a click or sometimes a buzz
2) Sometimes it cranks but very slowly with a booster pack

Ive put 3 different batteries and 2 different boost packs on it and the condition is the same - only 1 time did I get what I'd call a "normal crank"

The boost packs drained pretty quick too and one of them hit a fail safe due to internal battery heat (drawing excess current ?)

Ground seems good - I checked that

So im guessing either the solenoid isn't providing enough current or the starter is bad (my guess)

Plan now is to :

1) jump the solenoid to see if that works -- if so the solenoid is bad
2) jump the starter while its on the bike (tight in there so need to be careful) to see if that turns over just as slow

If it turns out to be a bad starter, what are my options for replacement ? do I recall that these original starters are only 2 brush motors ? and there is a 3 or 4 brush starter that will fit ?

any other tips are appreciated

 

I've never rebuilt one of these starters but I'm sure it can be done

https://v4musclebike.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42829

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

 

My brother in law's VF1000F2 had poor starting and I recall that starter motor brushes were the cause.

 

thanks, yea, if its just brushes and the like should be doable but if the windings are F'd then I wold need some sort of replacement . The windings on my CBX750 had gone bad and I had to source a replacement starter

 

cheers

yea and I think these are dual brush starters and way under powered for these engines if im remembering correctly

 

I have ran into this on my 1000Rs. It is 99% likely the starter.

First thing to do (if it hasn't been done) is remove it and pull it apart. A pile of brush dust will fall out.

Absolutely keep track of the thin thrust washers. Think there are 2 stainless and 1 phenolic on one end and then 1 stainless on the other. (Total memory on this, so...). They don't look they are there cuz they are all stuck together and then they fool you into thinking they won't go anywhere. Then they will. And you won't know how many or what order they were in. The lesson is identify them, separate them and account for them.

Can of electronics cleaner and douche everything out really good. The black will just keep coming.

Clean the armature. I scrape the groves clean in-between the armatures, it will be caked in there. Tooth brush and more electronics cleaner.

Did you have slot cars as a kid? In the AFX service manual it instructed you to use a red rubber erasure to clean the armatures. It works awesome.

The brushes usually have meat left, but sand them down a little for the clean armature.

Reassemble with some appropriate light lube on the armature shafts on either end.

It should spin up faster with a lot less draw.

Now that it is back together and has bought you some time to start the bike, source a 86/87 VFR (RC24 or RC26) starter. They spin the right direction, have 4 brushes, and engage the reduction gear nicely. PLENTY of gear mesh. I have a picture of them next to each other somewhere.

I have done this to every single one of my 1000s and it made a huge difference. Spins up so nice and fast. There were times I would come out from lunch on a ride and wonder if my bike was gonna start in front of everybody. It was those kinda-still-hot times where the resistance in the starter was still high. And this was after servicing the starters as above. ZERO issues since the change on all bikes.

 

Thanks Captain !!!

I knew id heard about the 4 brush starter. pat number 31200ML7008 ?

ill get at the starter cleaning next week, thanks for the tips !

 

All what I read about were 83 - 85 VF700/750F starters, but one day I got all 3 out together and discovered the VFR version's spline was closer to the length of the 1000.

I have some fuel pump tips on fitting a newer VFR pump (straight spigot, commonly available) WHEN the stock pump shits itself too.

 

One more thing I forgot about, the cable post on the starter body is in a slightly different location. But you just need to eliminate the last cable clamp on the lower crankcase cover bolts and it will reach over.

 

While not an VF1000R, just a standard, I did the swap and it was very effective. Started that bike right up!

 

cheers guys, hope to have some time test a bit more and to mess with the starter on Tuesday

 

Help Please. Got the starter off and the Armature out.

so I have a Question

Are both "E" and "F" supposed attached to the brushes ? because only 'E' was attached (I had to remove that screw to the the brush plate off) -- I'm guessing not as one may be Positive and the other Negative.

 

From what I remember: not

 

thanks Captain. The starter internals were fairly clean ie not much carbon dust and the brushes look really good. ill clean the armature and comutator (found an eraser) etc, and see how it is after

I used a battery and boost box on it when it was out of the bike on the bench, and it takes a long time to "spool up", there is even a noticeable lag once the final lead is grounded out before it decides to spin , then it spools up to a steady speed but takes a few seconds to get there, but there is definitely no evidence of instant torque.

in other starters ive bench tested, you better be holding on to them when you put the juice to it.....not this one, so its either dirty, faulty or a generally smaller and weaker design than ive tested before.

it does seem small for that big 1000cc V4 lump

 

I agree. That thing should jump of the bench and break something.

I would cut bait and wait for a VFR starter.

 

I just found a VFR750 starter and bought it ... I'm with Cap, you step out and hope the big v4 strts as everyone is looking at you.

 

saw one on eBay, ill see if its still there, maybe six dog got it ? either way there will be others.

I will clean this one plus I jut got a spare one for free from my buddy (who sold me the bike back)