Cooling Issues, 6th gen

Discussion in 'Mechanics Garage' started by Joseph Michael Murphy, Jul 16, 2019.

  1. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    My bike runs hot, Really hot. 230*+ in traffic and switching the fan on does nothing. Even pushing 80+ on the freeway I'm @ 210*. From what I've read, this isn't normal, even for a 5th/6th gen VFR. I put the override switch, but again the fan does nothing. The temp keeps creeping up. Now the fan itself has crapped out on me and needs replacing. I'm looking to mod the system instead of simply replacing the fan.

    I did some Google-Foo and saw the VTR 1000 mod and some stuff about the RC51 fan.
    Which mod is better, the VRT 1000 fan or the RC51?

    My to do list:
    1. New thermostat.
    2. Fresh mix of distilled water, Water-Wetter and 20% coolant.
    3. New fan switch (why not, I'm here)

    At this point, I'm just trying to figure out which mod for the fan is going to work best for me.

    Any input on the fan or additional cooling mod's that I should do while I have the bike open, is welcome.

    Thank you.
     
  2. SVRGN_T

    SVRGN_T New Member

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    I've done a lot of the same research, preparing to do a cooling system flush and inspection myself. One thing I see mentioned a few times is to actually check the innards of all the cooling system, look for buildup inside the metal connectors, radiators, engine ports, etc. If you have buildup, especially in a radiator, it makes it exponentially less effective.

    If you even wanted to be super thorough, you can drain a sample of the coolant and have it tested for various factors (freeze point, nitrite buildup, etc.) I think some kits can even detect metal content.

    https://www.amazon.com/Fleetguard-CC2602-Coolant-3-Way-bottle/dp/B002ABSF1S for example.
     
  3. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Your action list may indeed help to partially mitigate the over heating. However others have observed many times that these bikes run hot - very hot - sort of comes with the territory.

    Hence I would probably add to that list - checking whether the radiators have any trapped air pockets.

    You might want to try and locate a thread on here (several years back) where someone faced with similar overheating concerns replaced the standard (small) oil cooler radiator with the much larger one fitted to the RVF? (Roughly double the size).

    I cannot recall if that swap was ever carried out, or indeed if it proved to be a more successful way of keeping engine temperatures down.

    Like so many things, fitting a bigger oil cooler would of course involve a trade off - as the bike would take a bit longer to reach optimum operating temperature

    Inherently hot oil has greater potential to carry and dissipate energy than hot water, even water maintained at whatever pressure is imposed by the radiator cap. So for VFRs which are routinely used in super hot climates I suspect increasing the oil cooling capacity could well deliver a welcome improvement.

    In a similar manner I am sure there are folks on here who have carried out the VTR fan swap. However it is difficult to determine the effectiveness of the VTR fan compared with the stock without arranging some sort of like with like testing. Inherently it would need two otherwise identical VFRs arranging to set out in super hot weather to ride together along exactly the same route at the same time whilst ideally monitoring or comparing displayed temperatures perhaps by using some sort of intercom. That should allow a reasonably fair comparison.

    Over in the Alps, extreme hot temperatures rarely cause concern, so this is one issue where folks in California are probably the experts.

    However as only one radiator on the 6th Gens has a fan attached, I wonder if it would make better sense to simply tap into the existing fan wiring and simply install a second similar size fan to cool the other radiator. What I do not know, is the normal air flows direction through the radiators once the bike is travelling at speed but before the fan cuts in. Presumably it makes sense to ensure that any fan(s) installed on the bike simply augment the normal airflow, rather than fight against it.
     
  4. SVRGN_T

    SVRGN_T New Member

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    I think that was the whole point of the VTR fan, was to change the direction of the fan flow, not the volume.

    The issue was that at speed, wind is trying to make the air go from inside out, and the VFR fan is trying to pull air from outside in. The two forces fight each other and cause a dead zone of pressure, which is why the temps creep at cruising speed.

    I read through the OG thread of the guy that figured out the VTR fan works, and he did a very detailed report of a before and after. The trade off if you switch to the VTR fan is that your left leg will get hot sitting in traffic, as air's now being blown out (properly) rather than being drawn in
     
  5. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    I saw the thread your talking about and one on a VFR Discussion that talk about the same thing.
    I also saw this one: https://www.vfrdiscussion.com/index.php?/forums/topic/85682-5th-gen-cooling-upgrades/

    This guy is talking about using a hopped up SPAL pusher fan for the RC51. I think this is what I'm going with. Along with a radiator flush and fill with 10% coolant mix and water-wetter. New thermostat and fan switch, too. Why not? I'm in there doing the cooling system I may as well do some preventative maintenance. Not that anyone GAF, but I'll do a write-up on the entire thing. Maybe someone else trying to keep a 15 year old VFR on the road will find it useful. I'm also going to keep the oil cooler idea from Skimad4x4 on the to-do list.

    Thanks all.
     
  6. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    Ok - first FIX the problem - not create another.
    The bikes run HOT.. its how they are.

    New fan switch ?

    At what temp does (did) the fan turn on ?
    If it was at about 225* then thats correct and the switch DOESN'T need to be replaced.
    Now you have fitted a manual switch to ground does mean that you can turn on the fan EARLY which isn't a bad thing.

    New Thermostat ?
    Again does it work correctly >?
    Test it

    Water?
    I run almost 50/50 anti freeze / water. The manual has recommendations for hot climates so just follow that advice.

    My gut feel is that your system works correctly & just needs a refresh / clean with the standard Honda fan however if you need MORE:

    1.a extra fan on the other non fan assisted RAD (small pc type fan - there isnt much space on that side)
    2. an enhanced OIL COOLER is probably the way to go.
    3. Higher pressure rad cap
     
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  7. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    The thing on the VTR fan as you say is that the airflow now pushes out, instead of pulling in.
    But the caveats...
    - If you are is dead stop and go traffic, actually the stock fan performs better, you are pulling cooler ambient air vs the VTR fan pushing heated engine air....
    - But if on the commute, say the majority of the time you are 10mph plus the VTR fan is the better choice.
    - Then also if most of the time you are at plus 10 mph or better and at speed, then yes, again the VTR fan is the way to go.
    - The VTR fan at a dead stop, may actually gradually increase temps, as you are constantly blowing hot air from the engine across the radiators.

    Its a really tune it to your specific ride situation, especially if you have a daily stop and go going on.
    Some guys will install a fan switch to kick it on early before things get too hot.

    And yeah, I'm in general agreement to refresh the stocker system to gage where you are at. My fav coolant is the Honda blue you can buy at a car dealer, and I add some water wetter to the mix... does the job...

    I really like Mohawks adding the SPAL fans to the system, especially to the right side. Great idea, but really since I dont have much of a overheat problem,
    my current ride with just the VTR fan, and a good flush out every 2 or 3 years is good to go.
     
  8. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    When I had my 2003 VFR, I installed a manual override switch in parallel with the thermal switch. Out here We have a lot of traffic lights, each with a left turn arrow which makes for very long cycles. I used the switch whenever I stopped at these lights.
     
  9. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    Fan doesn't come on at all. The switch is garbage. I'm looking at the bigger oil cooler. I like the idea and will probably upgrade in the future. I already replaced the cap.
     
  10. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    Have the override switch already. Doesn't do jack squat. Fan comes on, bike continues to heat up.
     
  11. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    Ordered a hopped up RC51 SPAL pusher fan.
     
  12. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    "Have the override switch already. Doesn't do jack squat. Fan comes on, bike continues to heat up. "..

    So are you just saying..
    (1) the fan runs when you use the over-ride switch?
    (2) if you do not use the over-ride switch the fan never comes on?

    If so that does suggest you either have a dead fan switch or you may have an airlock in the radiator/cooling system, meaning the actual level in the radiator is below the fan switch location - hence the switch does not know things are getting hot, and does not activate the fan.

    I have first hand experience of overheating problems with my 6th Gen after a coolant change (Diving Pete will recall jury rigging the fan to run via a switch on Douglas Promenade).

    I (foolishly) had the bike serviced by a dealer just before I set off to meet Pete for the Isle of Man trip. With cool weather and free running motorways, problems only emerged once I got to the Isle of Man where the pace increased somewhat and the bike started to dump coolant on the floor. My return was via Belfast and Dublin and as temperatures on the Emerald Isle were gloriously hot I hit Google and found a specialist motorcycle garage on my route located in a tiny village in the middle of Ireland who instantly diagnosed the problem as an airlock. 4 hours and €22 later, I was called and told the bike was sorted. When I collected the bike they explained that because of the side mounted radiators these bikes can be a major pain to fully clear of air - the trick is to keep topping up as you warm the bike with the pressure cap off. Then (with help) tip the bike side to side several times - this should burp out any air trapped in the pipes, repeat the tipping until nothing further emerges. Top up again, fit the pressure cap and check the fan runs when the temperature reaches the trigger temperature. The bike ran perfectly all the way back to the Alps.

    I hope the solution for your bike is as simple as that.

    SkiMad
     
  13. Allyance

    Allyance Insider

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    It’s been over 4 years since I had my 6th gen, I do remember “burping” was very important, sometimes having to do it more than once, also making sure pressure cap is working properly and not leaking.
     
  14. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    its a really easy job to do:
    Just squeeze the hoses with the cap off - If you see bubbles you have air !!!
    It will be obvious. Remove the fairings & remove the rad cap. Systematically squeeze all hoses. Ck the coolant level, should be at the top of the rad just where the cap sits..
    This is your first step - if you have air the whole system is compremised.
     
  15. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    You're most likely correct about the air bubble.
    A. This bike exhibits the telltale sign, intermittent high idle after warm-up.
    B. The previous owner was a clown. I've found all types of what I like to call, "Monkey Motion".

    Here's the straight truth. The bike is 14 years old with 60k miles and was far from garage kept.
    I ride from Rosarito Beach, MX to San Diego, CA, USA daily. About 80 miles or 129 km round trip distance.
    Harsh weather and road conditions with very little support along the way.
    Mi espanol esta mierda & it's key that I make it to work. Reliability is a necessity. If I'm going to service/upgrade the cooling system, I'm going to do all of it.

    Thank you everyone for the input. I'll post some progress pics and a little write-up/follow-up.
     
  16. mello dude

    mello dude Administrator

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    At that mileage, also test out your charging system, unless you know its been upgraded. 60k and no maintenance and its due to die.
    A voltage guage up front to watch would be a good idea.
     
  17. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    Yea, this bike had the stater/regulator problems. I can see where they upgraded the wiring with the heavier gauge wire and grounding.

    Edit: I like the voltage gauge idea...... I may start looking for a little digital readout.
     
  18. skimad4x4

    skimad4x4 "Official" VFRWorld Greeter

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    Wow - small world.

    If that is going to be your regular commute check over the tyres and suspension too!

    I well remember a dramatic change in road surface (paved to sand/shingle) when riding with Scubalong on the dual carriageway heading south from San Diego. As neither of us spotted any warning signs, suffice to say the VFR was going way too fast for the new surface and, whilst it stayed right way up, the underside got an instant sand blasting. Sure enough we enjoyed a very pleasant lunch in Rosarito before heading back north via the Tecate crossing.



    SkiMad
     
  19. Joseph Michael Murphy

    Joseph Michael Murphy New Member

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    Two new Roadmaster 3's the day I bought it, along with new EBC pads front/back. Ditched the lame "lowering kit" from the rear shock link and replaced with the factory part. My rear tire has started cupping because the shock is blown. I'm going to flea-bay a used shock sourced from a CBR1000xx.

    I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your time here in Mexico. I love it here in Rosarito Beach.
     
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  20. Diving Pete

    Diving Pete Member

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    You would be better looking at a CBR954 rear shock..
     
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