I have been at H-D

Discussion in 'Anything Goes' started by Big_Jim59, Nov 10, 2018.

  1. OOTV

    OOTV Insider

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    :Rofl:
     
  2. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    I didn't even know it was still in print.

    Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
     
  3. RC46-SP2

    RC46-SP2 New Member

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    It's interesting to read the perspective of the US people in here, as you guys would likely have a better handle on Harleys (and the attendant sub-culture) than those outside the US.

    Haven't had a huge amount to do with them personally. Might have something to do with an incident back in the late 80s, when I pulled up at a set of lights (at the front), next to an HD. The HD rider has looked across and said something like "Maybe I should get off and slash your tyres". Then he's said "Betcha you won't get near me between here and the next set of lights" (that set of lights is about a kilometre up the road...I was on an FJ1100 at the time). I was incredulous, and missed the lights going green...still blew by him, though ;)

    Have a good friend who has one, and likes it for what it is. He'll take the piss out of me for riding a UJM bike. I respond with something witty like "Hey, I like my bikes to Go, Handle, Stop, and Last...Which of those boxes does a Harley tick?"

    It's interesting to get a bit of handle on the classic HD buyer demographic, that being older people with plenty of disposable income. Clearly, that market is drying up. Interesting also to hear that younger riders aren't interested in the marque. Given the amount of easy, cheap credit that's been available - seemingly forever - over there, that was a bit of a surprise. Is credit getting harder to obtain, or are younger buyers just not interested in riding HDs (or indeed bikes in general)?

    To the OP, sorry to hear about the job loss. Personally, I'd re-skill/move on. There has to be something better out there than that! Good luck!
     
  4. bk94si

    bk94si Member

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    I think some younger people are interested in Harleys but they can't afford new ones and the market is starting to be flooded with low mileage used Harleys.
     
  5. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    Low mileage and low price because they don't sell as well as they one did. There was a nice softail in my area that wouldn't sell for years. Guy wanted like $10K, then dropped to $8K and finally ended up selling for around $5.5K.

    That's the funny thing about Harley owners. Everyone thinks thiers is special. They are nice looking bikes for sure. They just don't live up to the hype they've put on themselves and people are starting to realize the price doesn't really match the value.

    Then you had the motorcycle craze. Stuff like OCC and SOA brought in this huge influx of new riders. Well that craze is over. All of the guys who bought bikes and spent a fortune on them realize they dont ride as much as they thought they would or not at all. Now they wanted to sell thier bikes and can't because there are a million out there for sale and a lot are really nice so the only way to sell is cheap.

    I like cruisers myself. Ive got a Magna and a victory vegas. Great machines. Ive never owned a harley and probably never will.
     
  6. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    You just described the resale issues with any VFR. Everyone likes to boast about what a fabulous deal they got on their new (or used) VFR (but conveniently leave out the tax, doc fees, and other fees they DID pay).

    Concerning HD's, it's a generational problem, quality problem, cost of ownership problem, the perception or reality that "too many thugs ride them and I don't want to be associated with that" problem, a price to buy problem, a flooded used market problem, a won't go, stop, or handle problem, a poor functional design problem, etc. In summary, too many problems with HD's. Jap bikes and cars just work.
     
  7. REVTMOLO

    REVTMOLO New Member

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    So to summarize: "They just don't live up to the hype they've put on themselves and people are starting to realize the price doesn't really match the value".
     
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  8. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    Exactly. A new HD electric bike looks like an act of desperation, not concern about the environment or a new lucrative market. V Twin air cooled engines are self-limiting dinosaurs but HD won't even consider moving away from them. The noise some people like from them remind me of pick up tucks with loud dual exhausts....what's the point?
     
  9. Gator

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    And their V twin design has major flaws from their 30's design that they barley have addressed. lol
     
  10. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    You can't totally blame HD, their buyers refuse to have anything to do with anything but V-twins. HD knows
    this, and I'm sure would like to expand their market, but what do they have to offer that isn't already available
    at any of the other producers. Their Porsche V-twin was a failure, and I've heard it was because it just didn't "sound"
    like a Harley. And refusal by dinosaurs to expand their horizons of course.

    Perhaps if they had tried some other engine and body designs a couple decades ago, they might be able to move
    forward. But now it's just too expensive for them to try anything new. As proven by their electric bike. $30,000 and
    100 mile range. Ridiculous.
     
  11. Bat-1

    Bat-1 New Member

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    Dear Narly Davidson Board of Directors,

    Hear me now and believe me later. Cut your losses on the Electronasaurus you're about to unleash on ... well, I don't know who on, because I can't think of any demographic that wants this atrocity.

    You have to know that your core Harley D*cks have no interest.

    And anyone with $30+k for a motorcycle is going to have a brain so the price vs. performance is a deal killer.

    That leaves Jay Leno. With the right marketing maybe he'll buy ten thousand. Then again marketing has never been a H-D strong point.

    So cut your losses. Take all the money you save and send someone to kiss Eric Buell's behind every morning and evening until he agrees to rejoin the company. Let him design the entry level and high performance machines that will result in future riders having a warm fuzzy about the Motor Company and move up the product pipeline as they age. Not to mention get you lots of media coverage.

    Of course that's going to take a dozen years or so and you all will have gotten your big severance/retirement bonuses and so don't really give a crap about anything that far out.

    Take away: Abort the Electronosaurus. You'll save meeeellions. Seriously.
     
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  12. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    Agree. So, in conclusion, HD is a "dead man walking". The demographic that likes what they have to offer is literally dying by the day. Their market ceases to exist a little bit every day. What a failure of planning and longer range marketing. They got caught flat footed and that's totally self-induced largely by Wille G. Davidson whose primary "talent" is emotion which obviously isn't working. Too bad for those that work for them...except for the Chinese. Hell with them.
     
  13. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    I still wouldn't count them out. They are not Indian and they have faced this before and survived.
    I don't have a clue what might save them, but you just never know.
    Maybe it'll be the golf carts.
     
  14. NorcalBoy

    NorcalBoy Member

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  15. reg71

    reg71 Poser Staff Member

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    Maybe they'll downsize to a real niche market and continue that way.
    Hell, their logo is worth millions if not more.
    Who knows what they could do with that.
     
  16. James Bond

    James Bond Member

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    Anybody want to invest in HD stock? Not me for sure. Their logo is worth nothing monetarily if they aren't financially strong and growing. I'll take the bet that they will not have improved in the next 5 years, if they're around. I see a private equity firm buying them cheap, gutting them, likely making them worse, then ditching them into oblivion at a loss.
     
  17. Gator

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    They deserve to perish. Just for what they did to Eric Buell and MV Agusta. Not to mention their bikes. lol
     
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  18. scottbott

    scottbott Member

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    in the UK market most bikes are 'bought' on PCP's, Person Contract Plans so you in effect 'borrowing' them as you make your payments until you either pay off what is left of your contract use it as a deposit on your next new bike or hand it in and walk away, it's all well and good when things are going well but if the shit hits the fan (as in Brexit maybe) over here a lot of people are in trouble and could end up with no bike and still a debt to pay off ,maybe having an older bike of lowish value and actually owning it is a good thing to do, I have always liked the Harley Sportster but never ridden one and could never afford one of the bigger ones as long as I have whole in my arse
     
  19. Bat-1

    Bat-1 New Member

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    That explains it :)

    HD isn't going to disappear, they'll either get a clue or get much smaller.

    Plenty of private equity shops would love to get their hands on their assets.
     
  20. FJ12rydertoo

    FJ12rydertoo Member

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    The thing is he likes the Sportster because he's never ridden one. :)
     
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